NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[Sport]

It's going to look like the default arena in NHL Hitz which had like four rows. 

 

 

 

[RyanMcD29]

Hey now the Coyotes would have the largest arena in the ECAC

[IceCap]

46 minutes ago, Sport said:

It's going to look like the default arena in NHL Hitz which had like four rows. 

 

 

 

The Coyotes wish they could get it that full.

[gosioux76]

19 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

What don't you get about supply & demand? They're going to have a quarter of the supply that they've had at Gila River, so theoretically they're envisioning that a single seat at ASU should have 4 times the demand. If the current average ticket price is $50, a sell out brings in $915,000. To bring in that same revenue at a 5,000 seat arena, the average ticket price should be $183. We'll see how it works out for them, but I understand the pricing strategy.

 

As for Seattle, if they're selling out the building with ticket prices what they are, why would they sell for less? They paid $650 million for the franchise, so they're obviously going to try and strike while the iron is hot, and before the novelty wears off. If you're looking for cheap family entertainment there are 2 WHL teams in the Seattle area. If you have young kids they probably won't notice the difference.

 

Baseball is completely different. There are twice as many games, the stadiums are twice the size of NHL arenas, and there are only a handful of markets capable of selling out every game, regardless of how the team plays on the field. When you throw in the fact that a large chunk of games are played on weekday afternoons, it should be clear why tickets are typically easier to come by.

 

You're spot-on about the supply and demand equation factoring into this. 100%. 

 

That said, I can completely understand the sense of outrage at the same time. I can't speak to the quality of either venue, so I'll play a bit in generalities, but it feels like a lot to ask your biggest supporters to pay a premium to go from an NHL-caliber venue to a significantly smaller, college-level venue, which I presume would offer a much lower-quality environment.

 

Again, I'm speaking in generalities. The team's old venue could've been an outmoded dump and this new college venue may be state of the art, but from a surface level, I could see questioning whether, even with significantly shorter supply, you're getting value for your money. 

 

I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that this has all been factored into the pricing. Maybe they figure that they have just enough die-hards to fill that smaller-capacity venue at that price, and they're OK losing everyone else.  If that's the case, then it makes a lot more sense. 

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, gosioux76 said:

but it feels like a lot to ask your biggest supporters to pay a premium to go from an NHL-caliber venue to a significantly smaller, college-level venue, which I presume would offer a much lower-quality environment.

There's also the fact that the Coyotes have always had trouble drawing. Factor in the team sucking... and these prices are a lot. 

 

You look at your average Coyotes game and maybe 5,000 is about right in terms of what they can sell out, but asking those diehards to pay these prices is a tricky proposition. 

No doubt they'll do whatever they can to pack the place at the start of the season so the first impression isn't an empty rink...but we'll see where the team's at attendance wise in December. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

16 minutes ago, IceCap said:

No doubt they'll do whatever they can to pack the place at the start of the season so the first impression isn't an empty rink...but we'll see where the team's at attendance wise in December. 

 

The Coyotes have made a terrible impression for like a decade and it doesn't seem to matter at all.

[LMU]

22 minutes ago, IceCap said:

There's also the fact that the Coyotes have always had trouble drawing. Factor in the team sucking... and these prices are a lot. 

 

You look at your average Coyotes game and maybe 5,000 is about right in terms of what they can sell out, but asking those diehards to pay these prices is a tricky proposition. 

No doubt they'll do whatever they can to pack the place at the start of the season so the first impression isn't an empty rink...but we'll see where the team's at attendance wise in December. 

Consider that the team's 30/32 in attendance already and is going to drop the capacity to roughly a third of what it currently is at that lowly number.  Plus next year they'll be even further in tank mode with the free agency albatross of playing in shoehorned college facilities.

 

Also, let's all recall that 5,000 was the planned capacity for ASU.  They're losing another 1,500 with the duct taped-together NHL amenities.

 

Really, they'd be no worse playing in this venue at this point.

[TBGKon]

@raysox and I had a little chat last night about this glaring error in the team banners at the Lightning arena.  Twitter thread to follow.

 

 

By the end of the night, he figured out that it had to do with the rearranging of the divisions last year.

 

 

[raysox]

Yep and it took watching the 2021 Cup presentation to figure it out. A close up shot of a player you could see the Canadian team row next to the Pacific row. Just a goof on the stadium management team.

[Sport]

I was thinking about the Coyotes playing at ASU thing a little more. Is it possible that we're all going to be wrong? Use your imagination. Once the visual of seeing NHL games in a rink that looks like Hobart Arena wears off, what if it's actually great in the same way that seeing a great band in an intimate music venue is better than seeing that same band in an arena? Is there any way this crazy plan actually works that we aren't thinking about right now? 

 

 

 

[DustDevil61]

43 minutes ago, Sport said:

I was thinking about the Coyotes playing at ASU thing a little more. Is it possible that we're all going to be wrong? Use your imagination. Once the visual of seeing NHL games in a rink that looks like Hobart Arena wears off, what if it's actually great in the same way that seeing a great band in an intimate music venue is better than seeing that same band in an arena? Is there any way this crazy plan actually works that we aren't thinking about right now? 

 

 

 

This worries me almost as much as the NHL being hellbent on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona.  Owners going to the cities their teams play in to cough up billions in public money for a shiny new arena that seats 20,000+ (depending on the sport) is bad enough.

 

Replace that 20,000+ seat venue with a 5-6k venue but keep the stadium price tag and the jump in prices due to a lower availability—only the ultra-wealthy would be able to afford to take a family to a game more than once every 3 years.

[gosioux76]

47 minutes ago, DustDevil61 said:

This worries me almost as much as the NHL being hellbent on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona.  Owners going to the cities their teams play in to cough up billions in public money for a shiny new arena that seats 20,000+ (depending on the sport) is bad enough.

 

Replace that 20,000+ seat venue with a 5-6k venue but keep the stadium price tag and the jump in prices due to a lower availability—only the ultra-wealthy would be able to afford to take a family to a game more than once every 3 years.

 

I don't really see this happening. The NHL can't grow by catering only to the few who can afford tickets. It would defy the general ethos of the sport, which is still,  by and large, pretty blue-collar, at least in contrast to the NBA and NFL, which have evolved into luxury brands. 

 

Nevertheless, @Sport brings up a good point. The Coyotes could use this opportunity to create a one-of-a-kind intimate environment that becomes the talk of the sport. But in doing so, I think the end game would be to parlay that into broader community goodwill, which makes it easier to support a more permanent stadium plan. 

 

Of course, I could have it all wrong. It would seem the whole reason behind the NHL's push into southern markets was to grow the game, but maybe that's all bluster at this point. 

[spartacat_12]

1 hour ago, DustDevil61 said:

This worries me almost as much as the NHL being hellbent on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona.  Owners going to the cities their teams play in to cough up billions in public money for a shiny new arena that seats 20,000+ (depending on the sport) is bad enough.

 

Replace that 20,000+ seat venue with a 5-6k venue but keep the stadium price tag and the jump in prices due to a lower availability—only the ultra-wealthy would be able to afford to take a family to a game more than once every 3 years.

 

Yeah...that's not going to happen. The league & Coyotes aren't happy about this situation, they're just trying to make lemonade. It's no different than the Chargers playing in an MLS stadium 1/3 the size of most NFL stadiums before Sofi got built.

[tp49]

6 hours ago, TBGKon said:

@raysox and I had a little chat last night about this glaring error in the team banners at the Lightning arena.  Twitter thread to follow.

 

 

By the end of the night, he figured out that it had to do with the rearranging of the divisions last year.

 

 

I was at the game last night too.  First time there, nice building.  Didn't notice the banner thing because they were blocked by the catwalk as we were a few rows from the top.  Looking forward to hitting a few next season.  If I had known I'd have suggested a pregame beverage or two at Cigar City.

[TBGKon]

19 hours ago, tp49 said:

I was at the game last night too.  First time there, nice building.  Didn't notice the banner thing because they were blocked by the catwalk as we were a few rows from the top.  Looking forward to hitting a few next season.  If I had known I'd have suggested a pregame beverage or two at Cigar City.

Check down the street at Sparkman Wharf.  Lots of good food stalls and bars too.

[throwuascenario]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:59 AM, DustDevil61 said:

This worries me almost as much as the NHL being hellbent on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona.  Owners going to the cities their teams play in to cough up billions in public money for a shiny new arena that seats 20,000+ (depending on the sport) is bad enough.

 

Replace that 20,000+ seat venue with a 5-6k venue but keep the stadium price tag and the jump in prices due to a lower availability—only the ultra-wealthy would be able to afford to take a family to a game more than once every 3 years.

 

That's such a terrible business model considering the fact that most of their revenue doesn't come from ticket sales. Pricing people out of tickets - especially in a market like Arizona - is going to cause people to lose interest in the team altogether. There goes TV audience, merch sales, concession sales, etc.

[throwuascenario]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:49 PM, spartacat_12 said:

 

What don't you get about supply & demand? They're going to have a quarter of the supply that they've had at Gila River, so theoretically they're envisioning that a single seat at ASU should have 4 times the demand. If the current average ticket price is $50, a sell out brings in $915,000. To bring in that same revenue at a 5,000 seat arena, the average ticket price should be $183. We'll see how it works out for them, but I understand the pricing strategy.

 

As for Seattle, if they're selling out the building with ticket prices what they are, why would they sell for less? They paid $650 million for the franchise, so they're obviously going to try and strike while the iron is hot, and before the novelty wears off. If you're looking for cheap family entertainment there are 2 WHL teams in the Seattle area. If you have young kids they probably won't notice the difference.

 

Baseball is completely different. There are twice as many games, the stadiums are twice the size of NHL arenas, and there are only a handful of markets capable of selling out every game, regardless of how the team plays on the field. When you throw in the fact that a large chunk of games are played on weekday afternoons, it should be clear why tickets are typically easier to come by.

 

The problem with that interpretation is that they didn't have the demand to fill their previous arena. They averaged 11,500 attendees, so any capacity that their previous arena could hold above that is simply irrelevant. Beyond that, they've surely lowered the demand for tickets by moving far from their previous fanbase and by playing in a college venue. Therefore, even though the supply is going down, the demand is as well.

[spartacat_12]

1 hour ago, throwuascenario said:

The problem with that interpretation is that they didn't have the demand to fill their previous arena. They averaged 11,500 attendees, so any capacity that their previous arena could hold above that is simply irrelevant. Beyond that, they've surely lowered the demand for tickets by moving far from their previous fanbase and by playing in a college venue. Therefore, even though the supply is going down, the demand is as well.

 

It's been well known for a while that the majority of the Yotes fanbase lives in the East Valley (Scottsdale/Tempe/Mesa/Chandler). They had originally looked into building an arena in Scottsdale before moving to Glendale, but couldn't get a deal done. Now instead of forcing most of their fans to drive over an hour each way for games, they'll be within 30 minutes of the rink. They'll also be closer to a wider variety of pre/post game entertainment options, instead of just a small entertainment district surrounded by desert.

[throwuascenario]

7 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

It's been well known for a while that the majority of the Yotes fanbase lives in the East Valley (Scottsdale/Tempe/Mesa/Chandler). They had originally looked into building an arena in Scottsdale before moving to Glendale, but couldn't get a deal done. Now instead of forcing most of their fans to drive over an hour each way for games, they'll be within 30 minutes of the rink. They'll also be closer to a wider variety of pre/post game entertainment options, instead of just a small entertainment district surrounded by desert.

 

I won't pretend to know anything about the Phoenix metro area, but it seems like a decade plus of the Coyotes playing so far away may have dampened any enthusiasm that the East Valley you speak of may have had at one point.

 

Also, to me nearby entertainment options = expensive and/or hassle parking.

[who do you think]

Will the Coyotes defense force ever run out of excuses?