NFL Offseason 2021: Ride the QB Carousel of Horror

[See Red]

2 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

And guess what? Both AB & Bell have made it further on different teams than either did with Tomlin. 

 

You can't be serious at this point.  Bell had 2 attempts for 6 carries in the postseason for the Chiefs and didn't play in the AFC Championship game or Super Bowl.  Brown was a fourth or fifth option for Tampa.

 

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So I'll ask again, what exactly has Tomlin shown in the past few years to prove he can win a Super Bowl?

 

Does he have to prove he can win a Super Bowl after he... you know... won a Super Bowl?

[AustinFromBoston]

12 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

 Does he have to prove he can win a Super Bowl after he... you know... won a Super Bowl?

What part of 12 years ago is so difficult to comprehend? You can't coast on 1 win forever. 

He's had 10 years with a brand new core still with a Hall of Fame QB and what does he have to show for it? Absolutely nothing. 

How many coaches get 10 years to win a Super Bowl with an e

 

You can justify his constant playoff failures by say "oh but he did win that one time over a decade ago".  

[Sport]

14 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Everyone says this.  Everyone.  "I'd trade 10 years of crap just for one Bowl". 

 

Then you get the bowl, and guess what?  You still want to enjoy watching football on Sunday, and after a while, the 'Bowl doesn't matter and what you're watching now does.  

 

Take it from an Eagles fan that suffered through 14 years of Andy Reid being very good but not getting it done, then they finally got it done, and now they're horrible again, coach fired, etc. etc. etc.

 

He's not very good at making his points, but the dude isn't totally wrong.

He’s totally wrong. The eagles are a bad example on this subject because I’ve never heard people move on to bitching so quickly so soon after a championship. You’re an outlier. You guys took the attitude of “about time” instead of “thank you” and now it’s like you’re mad they only have one instead of two or three. You might as well have never won it. It’s basically a masterclass in how not to behave after winning a championship. 

 

And yeah I would be fine with one championship - Ohio State won a national championship in 2002 and I basically stopped caring about college football as a result. 

[AustinFromBoston]

Imagine being a fan and saying  "No I don't want my team to win another championship". 

 Yes, I'm sure KC & Bucs fans certainly feel that way. 

They definitely don't want their team to be the next NFL dynasty. 

 

I also bet Packers fans certainly don't want Rodgers to win 1 more ring before he retires, no they're perfectly fine with that 1 championship 10 years ago. 

[IceCap]

Mike Tomlin is only an underachiever by spoiled Patriots standards so it makes sense that a spoiled Patriots fan is making him out to be Actually Bad.

 

1 hour ago, AustinFromBoston said:

What part of 12 years ago is so difficult to comprehend?

Oh come on, man! You know how many NFL coaches don't win Super Bowls? A lot. You know how many GOOD NFL coaches don't win Super Bowls? A LOT!

 

So Mike Tomlin must be pretty ing good at being a football coach to have won a Super Bowl. Especially given that he coached the majority of his career in an era where he had to share a conference with the buzzsaw that was the New England Patriots of 2001-2018.

 

On 4/21/2021 at 1:30 PM, AustinFromBoston said:

He’s Jason Garrett with a ring. 

Jason Garret would have a ring if he were a better football coach. Mike Tomlin has a ring, and is a better football coach than Jason Garrett.

 

The ONE thing I'll give Tomlin haters is that he seemed to look past the Browns in last season's Wild Card round. NOTHING about that Steelers team seemed prepared or ready to go. They looked past playoff-calibre opponent and got lit up. That's on Mike Tomlin as the head coach, but it happens to everyone. One bad first round loss doesn't invalidate the impressive body of work Tomlin's put together, in a league where winning consistently year by year is very hard.

[Sec19Row53]

So how about that Ken Anderson guy???

[BBTV]

6 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

So how about that Ken Anderson guy???

 

I was just telling the story of the game to some immigrant folks I met that want to get into the sport, and his name came up at least 30 times - how could it not?  It was basically Anderson then into Brady.

[infrared41]

46 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

So how about that Ken Anderson guy???

 

He needs to be in the HOF. Someone should start a thread so we can all argue about it.

[infrared41]

2 hours ago, IceCap said:

Mike Tomlin is only an underachiever by spoiled Patriots standards so it makes sense that a spoiled Patriots fan is making him out to be Actually Bad.

 

 

Exactly. BostonFomAustin is just looking for a reason to say "if the Steelers had coach like Bill Belichick, they would have won 6 more Super Bowls." Will someone please tee it up for him so he'll shut the up about Mike Tomlin? I'd offer money, but I think doing so would violate my mod contract and require me to attend a meeting.

[AustinFromBoston]

3 hours ago, IceCap said:

Mike Tomlin is only an underachiever by spoiled Patriots standards so it makes sense that a spoiled Patriots fan is making him out to be Actually Bad.

 

Please explain to me how 3 8-8 seasons and 3 playoff wins since 2011 with the teams he has had, is not underachieving by any standards? 

3 hours ago, IceCap said:

Oh come on, man! You know how many NFL coaches don't win Super Bowls? A lot. You know how many GOOD NFL coaches don't win Super Bowls? A LOT!

 

So Mike Tomlin must be pretty ing good at being a football coach to have won a Super Bowl. Especially given that he coached the majority of his career in an era where he had to share a conference with the buzzsaw that was the New England Patriots of 2001-2018.

Patriots aren't an excuse, half the time he didn't even play them. And coaches have gotten fired for accomplishing more than he has the past decade. 

Yeah he won a super bowl 12 years ago, so did Mike McCarthy and even more recently Doug Pederson. Guess what? They still got fired.  

And Tomlin has had far better teams than they have had. 

3 hours ago, IceCap said:

 

The ONE thing I'll give Tomlin haters is that he seemed to look past the Browns in last season's Wild Card round. NOTHING about that Steelers team seemed prepared or ready to go. They looked past playoff-calibre opponent and got lit up. That's on Mike Tomlin as the head coach, but it happens to everyone. One bad first round loss doesn't invalidate the impressive body of work Tomlin's put together, in a league where winning consistently year by year is very hard.

They also looked past Jacksonville in 2017

And Baltimore in 2014

And Denver in 2011

Not to mention all the regular season losses to bad teams that cost them down the line(2018, 2019). 

 

It's a recurring theme with him. Once or twice is understandable, but it has happened time & again with him.

If the teams themselves weren't that good that's one thing, But they were good. 2017 they had 10 Pro Bowlers and got embarrassed at home by Jacksonville.

In 2014 They were the first team have a 4,500-yard passer, 1,500-yard receiver and 1,300-yard rusher in the same season, couldn't make it past the Wild Card.

Why are you so vigorously defending a coach with a record like that? 

 

 

[IceCap]

39 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

They also looked past Jacksonville in 2017

And Baltimore in 2014

And Denver in 2011

Not to mention all the regular season losses to bad teams that cost them down the line(2018, 2019). 

 

It's a recurring theme with him.

It's not though. The Steelers lost to those teams. Not every playoff loss is a case of the losing coach "looking past" the opponent. Sports is predicated on the concept of a winner and loser after all, and sometimes you just lose. 

 

So yeah. Sometimes Tomlin's teams lose. It happens. The Browns game though, was the only time I've seen a Tomlin team just flat out unprepared. And while losing to your favourite punching bags in the playoffs is never ideal? Tomlin's got the body of work to justify an extension. 

 

43 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Yeah he won a super bowl 12 years ago

That's far more than a lot of legitimately good football coaches can say about their careers. 

 

45 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Doug Pederson

He only got fired because he was on the loosing end of a power struggle. The Steelers aren't a perfectly run franchise, but at least they seem to understand that management interfering in football ops isn't desirable. So yeah. Doug Pederson got fired and Mike Tomlin didn't. Because Mike Tomlin works for a better-run organization. 

 

47 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Mike McCarthy

Mike McCarthy spent years not building around Aaron Rogers and praying he'd bail him out. 

 

Mike Tomlin, on the other hand, has actively tried to build a complete roster to compete year in and year out. Yeah, sometimes things don't work out as planned (Bell, Brown), but his consistency in putting up winning records in a league designed around parity tells me Tomlin's hits outnumber his misses. 

[AustinFromBoston]

39 minutes ago, IceCap said:

It's not though. The Steelers lost to those teams. Not every playoff loss is a case of the losing coach "looking past" the opponent. Sports is predicated on the concept of a winner and loser after all, and sometimes you just lose. 

So the Steelers weren't looking past Jacksonville despite all the comments about an AFC rematch with New England, and coming out completely flat against them in the first half?

And what's the excuse for losing to Tim Tebow of all people? That has to be the most embarrassing loss in Pittsburgh history. 

44 minutes ago, IceCap said:

That's far more than a lot of legitimately good football coaches can say about their careers. 

Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Doug Pederson, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh have all won a Super Bowl more recently & have more playoff wins than Tomlin. 

 

51 minutes ago, IceCap said:

He only got fired because he was on the loosing end of a power struggle. The Steelers aren't a perfectly run franchise, but at least they seem to understand that management interfering in football ops isn't desirable. So yeah. Doug Pederson got fired and Mike Tomlin didn't. Because Mike Tomlin works for a better-run organization. 

 

 "Better Run" despite having less playoff success than the Eagles? 

55 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Mike McCarthy spent years not building around Aaron Rogers and praying he'd bail him out. 

 

Mike Tomlin, on the other hand, has actively tried to build a complete roster to compete year in and year out. Yeah, sometimes things don't work out as planned (Bell, Brown), but his consistency in putting up winning records in a league designed around parity tells me Tomlin's hits outnumber his misses. 

His playoff record indicates otherwise. 

3 8-8 seasons and 3 playoff wins since 2011, what about that justifies keeping him around? 

[Sport]

11 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Imagine being a fan and saying  "No I don't want my team to win another championship". 

 

Literally nobody is saying that. 

 

 

[IceCap]

5 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

So the Steelers weren't looking past Jacksonville despite all the comments about an AFC rematch with New England, and coming out completely flat against them in the first half?

People forget how good that Jags team was. They would have gone to the Super Bowl had a few calls gone the other way in the AFC Championship game. 

 

Know the difference between that Jags team and the Steelers though? Tomlin's Steelers have been 29-18-1 since that loss. The Jags have been 12-36 since that win. 

That's why Mike Tomlin got extended and Doug Marrone got fired. 

 

5 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

And what's the excuse for losing to Tim Tebow of all people? That has to be the most embarrassing loss in Pittsburgh history. 

The Steelers lost a football game, man. That's what happened. You think they're the only NFL team to lose to a Tim Tebow-led offence? 

 

5 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Doug Pederson, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh have all won a Super Bowl more recently & have more playoff wins than Tomlin. 

You keep saying crap like this like it means something. Or disproves what I'm saying. It doesn't. 

 

6 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

"Better Run" despite having less playoff success than the Eagles? 

The Pittsburgh Steelers are a better run football team than the Philadelphia Eagles, yes. 

 

The Steelers are 29-18-1 since the Eagles won that Super Bowl. The Eagles are 22-25-1

 

6 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

His playoff record indicates otherwise. 

3 8-8 seasons and 3 playoff wins since 2011, what about that justifies keeping him around? 

A consistent body of work that produces winning records more times than not and consistent playoff contention. 

In a league designed around parity.

 

I know Tomlin's record might look pitiful to a Patriots fan, but to the rest of the league? He's won a Super Bowl and consistently has his team in a position to contend. That's worth a lot. 

[DEAD!]

Do I need to bring up Mark Sanchez and the 10 years between Patriot Super Bowl wins again? 

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, DEAD! said:

Do I need to bring up Mark Sanchez and the 10 years between Patriot Super Bowl wins again? 

 

Please do.

[Matthew24]

2 hours ago, DEAD! said:

Do I need to bring up Mark Sanchez and the 10 years between Patriot Super Bowl wins again? 

Yes.

[Sport]

The case for Mike Tomlin and I hate saying nice things about the Steelers is that they're never bad. Nobody goes 14 years without a losing season by accident. Jason Garrett and the Cowboys were often bad, Mike McCarthy was carried by one of the best QBs ever. There's seasons where everything goes wrong for the Steelers and at minimum they still find a way to 8-8. If you want to argue that he's the reason they haven't won in the playoffs then you could just as easily argue they wouldn't get that far in many years without him. When you're stable at head coach, especially with a coach who has proven he can win it all no matter what arbitrary timeline you're using to discredit that (which is dumber than s***), you don't throw it away to go looking in the head coach woods for someone who's maybe better, but probably isn't. The Steelers have had 3 head coaches since the dang ass 1960's. I think they know what they're doing. 

[BBTV]

But just like Dungy in Tampa, sometimes it takes a new voice to get a team over the top, or someone that does things just a little differently in the big games.

 

I think it's stupid to suggest that Tomlin isn't a good coach, but after a certain number of years in one place, the vets that have been there forever may "tune out" a guy, and the guy himself may (without even realizing it) get a little complacent.  I don't think it's absurd at all to think that someone else may have been able to "finish" better during Tomlin's tenure.  

 

That they're at the very end of the line with Ben, it may be time to bring in someone new that can try to squeeze a little bit more out of the vets that they have, while also being the guy to coach whoever's after Ben for the next 10 years.  Of course, that's simply not how the Steelers operate, and it's admirable (even if sometimes frustrating for their fans) so this is what it is.

 

So... like there's a draft coming up next week, right?  IMO Trevor Lawrence should pull an Eli Manning and refuse to sign with Jacksonville.  Discuss.

[GhostOfNormMacdonald]

9 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

His playoff record indicates otherwise. 

3 8-8 seasons and 3 playoff wins since 2011, what about that justifies keeping him around? 

You mean 10 seasons of .500 at worst football? I would murder someone for the Vikings to be that competitive. I wish Massachusetts had gone through with seceding during the war of 1812 so we wouldn't have to listen to spoiled Pats fans that don't understand how fluctuation in success happens for most teams. Bill Belichek has more losing seasons in the past 10 years than Tomlin.