NFL 2010-2011

[powersurge]

I'm the opposite. I can't stand that dog logo. The "dog" imagery is only related to one subsect of the larger Cleveland Browns fanbase, those guys in the "Dawg Pound," and from what I've heard from other Browns fans, they do not represent the majority of the team's fanbase. It would be like Redskins adopting a pig logo because of those hog guys, or the Raiders petitioning to use Darth Vader.

The elf is nice, but it's a catch-22 if you ask me. On one hand the original mark is dated, and would need to be cleaned up/streamlined a bit ala the Cardinals' new logo. Yet on the other hand, the very concept of the elf logo is dated, and updating him to look more "modern" would come across as silly.

I like the =B= logo because it's simple and has a traditional feel to it. The name Browns will always have an ambiguous quality to it, so why try to nail it down to a concrete image like a dog or elf? Why not play up the "football team" aspect?

A lot of people don't understand. In Cleveland, we had a nice baseball team for 10 or 12 years, and the Cavs are in the top 3 teams in the NBA for a few years... but Cleveland is a hard-nosed, hard-working town, which is why we relate to much to the hard-nosed game of football. The name of the foot ball stadium is CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM... not Gillete Stadium, Viagra Field, Cambel's Soup Arena. The Fans are so much a part of the team like no place else.

Thats why i love the Dawg being a part of the Browns.

Don't kid yourself...if Progressive, Sherwin-Williams, or KeyBank decided to pony up a fat long term naming rights deal you would be attending games at a stadium with another name. Cash is king. Even the Yankees played around with naming rights for Yankee Stadium before choosing otherwise. Last time I checked the Yankees' revenue is much higher than the Brown's revenue so they can afford to do that.

I also think this incessant need to classify cities as "Blue Collar" and "Hard Working" has got to go. Its the equivelent of calling a car "sporty". Every crappy 4 cylinder car now a days seems to use the word "Sporty" in its description. Every town has "Blue Collar" and every town has "White Collar" these days. It just seems like the NFL cities that haven't won a title in years want to call themselves "Blue Collar" (Cleveland, Detroit, Philly, etc.)

[TruColor]

I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but this is also an official Browns' secondary mark:

It's labeled as a "vintage" logo, and there are four different variations of it...different outlines, reversal of colors, etc. Note the darker "Burnt Orange" and Tan as well.

And, the "Brownie" logo is also considered a "vintage" mark. Different variations include Tan or no Tan:

[oldschoolvikings]

The Brownie kicks ass.

[illwauk]

I'm the opposite. I can't stand that dog logo. The "dog" imagery is only related to one subsect of the larger Cleveland Browns fanbase, those guys in the "Dawg Pound," and from what I've heard from other Browns fans, they do not represent the majority of the team's fanbase. It would be like Redskins adopting a pig logo because of those hog guys, or the Raiders petitioning to use Darth Vader.

The elf is nice, but it's a catch-22 if you ask me. On one hand the original mark is dated, and would need to be cleaned up/streamlined a bit ala the Cardinals' new logo. Yet on the other hand, the very concept of the elf logo is dated, and updating him to look more "modern" would come across as silly.

I like the =B= logo because it's simple and has a traditional feel to it. The name Browns will always have an ambiguous quality to it, so why try to nail it down to a concrete image like a dog or elf? Why not play up the "football team" aspect?

I love the Dawg logo. Now, i do NOT want it on the helmet. The helmet should always be orange with brown and white stripes. However, i love the "Dawg" being part of the Browns logo. In the '80's (i believe), the Browns defense was refereed to as something similar to "a pack of wild dogs." The fans at the time then kinda adopted that same idea, and thus... the world famous Dawg Pound.

A lot of people don't understand. In Cleveland, we had a nice baseball team for 10 or 12 years, and the Cavs are in the top 3 teams in the NBA for a few years... but Cleveland is a hard-nosed, hard-working town, which is why we relate to much to the hard-nosed game of football. The name of the foot ball stadium is CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM... not Gillete Stadium, Viagra Field, Cambel's Soup Arena. The Fans are so much a part of the team like no place else.

Thats why i love the Dawg being a part of the Browns.

I really hate the whole "we're a hard working, blue collar town" act. It gets used to describe every city. I hear it all the time to describe Philadelphia when people are talking about the fans bond with the Eagles. Every city has white collar and blue collar people who are fans. What are they going to say - "we're really a laid-back lazy town"? There are plenty of white collar software developers I work with who are every bit as big of a fan of the Eagles as anyone is of any team, including the Browns. Just like there are a lot of fans of the Bills, Steelers, Packers, etc. who are every bit as crazy about their teams as Browns and Eagles fans. Getting dressed up and wearing halloween costumes to games isn't the be all end all of fanhood.

The notion that someone can bond with a football team (comprised of multi-million dollar athletes) because they roll up their sleeves and pound steel all day is simply ridiculous... as is the whole "it's different here" thing. Everyone likes to pretend that their fans are more a part of their team than any other, when the truth is that a lot of these cities are very similar when it comes to their teams (they're not all similar, but a lot are. I certainly wouldn't compare Cleveland, Phila, Pittsburgh, etc. to Jacksonville, St. Louis, etc.)

I would make an exception for Green Bay seeing how there is literally NOTHING to do there that's not football related. Of course, that has more to do with the shortsightedness of its civic "leaders" than anything, but otherwise you couldn't be more on-point. Where is the PoTD ribbon?

[ESTONES6]

i understand the draw backs of stereotyping... but the history of Cleveland is the hard-nosed stereotype, defined to a T. Now, every city has a special relationship with its fans, but Cleveland Browns football is a lot more a part of the community than other places like a New York, California teams, even a lot of the Texas teams.

[rams80]

i understand the draw backs of stereotyping... but the history of Cleveland is the hard-nosed stereotype, defined to a T. Now, every city has a special relationship with its fans, but Cleveland Browns football is a lot more a part of the community than other places like a New York, California teams, even a lot of the Texas teams.

The only thing I associate Cleveland with is failure and a burning river.

[CDixonDesign]

"See our river that catches on Fire"

"Our main export is crippling depression"

"Atleast we're not Detroit!"

[IceCap]

I'm the opposite. I can't stand that dog logo. The "dog" imagery is only related to one subsect of the larger Cleveland Browns fanbase, those guys in the "Dawg Pound," and from what I've heard from other Browns fans, they do not represent the majority of the team's fanbase. It would be like Redskins adopting a pig logo because of those hog guys, or the Raiders petitioning to use Darth Vader.

The elf is nice, but it's a catch-22 if you ask me. On one hand the original mark is dated, and would need to be cleaned up/streamlined a bit ala the Cardinals' new logo. Yet on the other hand, the very concept of the elf logo is dated, and updating him to look more "modern" would come across as silly.

I like the =B= logo because it's simple and has a traditional feel to it. The name Browns will always have an ambiguous quality to it, so why try to nail it down to a concrete image like a dog or elf? Why not play up the "football team" aspect?

I love the Dawg logo. Now, i do NOT want it on the helmet. The helmet should always be orange with brown and white stripes. However, i love the "Dawg" being part of the Browns logo. In the '80's (i believe), the Browns defense was refereed to as something similar to "a pack of wild dogs." The fans at the time then kinda adopted that same idea, and thus... the world famous Dawg Pound.

A lot of people don't understand. In Cleveland, we had a nice baseball team for 10 or 12 years, and the Cavs are in the top 3 teams in the NBA for a few years... but Cleveland is a hard-nosed, hard-working town, which is why we relate to much to the hard-nosed game of football. The name of the foot ball stadium is CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM... not Gillete Stadium, Viagra Field, Cambel's Soup Arena. The Fans are so much a part of the team like no place else.

Thats why i love the Dawg being a part of the Browns.

BBTV already brought up why the whole "we're a blue collar town" thing doesn't fly. I'm not doubting there aren't passionate Browns fans, of course there are. Are they more passionate then fans in, say, Philadelphia or Chicago though? Probably not.

As for the dog imagery, again the Dawg Pound is not the team. Would a pig logo make sense for the Redskins? Would Darth Vader's helmet make sense as a Raiders logo (as awesome as it would be)? No. Fan communities will take on identities of their own, there's nothing wrong with that. The team shouldn't change its own identity to match that of the fan community, however. That's an example of the tail wagging the dog (no pun intended). So sure, the Dawg Pound thing is great for that subsect of the Browns' fanbase, but it doesn't work as an overall team identity.

Again, the name Browns will always be ambiguous. So why try nailing down the team name to a concrete image? Play off the traditional football image and use the =B= logo.

[illwauk]

I'm the opposite. I can't stand that dog logo. The "dog" imagery is only related to one subsect of the larger Cleveland Browns fanbase, those guys in the "Dawg Pound," and from what I've heard from other Browns fans, they do not represent the majority of the team's fanbase. It would be like Redskins adopting a pig logo because of those hog guys, or the Raiders petitioning to use Darth Vader.

The elf is nice, but it's a catch-22 if you ask me. On one hand the original mark is dated, and would need to be cleaned up/streamlined a bit ala the Cardinals' new logo. Yet on the other hand, the very concept of the elf logo is dated, and updating him to look more "modern" would come across as silly.

I like the =B= logo because it's simple and has a traditional feel to it. The name Browns will always have an ambiguous quality to it, so why try to nail it down to a concrete image like a dog or elf? Why not play up the "football team" aspect?

I love the Dawg logo. Now, i do NOT want it on the helmet. The helmet should always be orange with brown and white stripes. However, i love the "Dawg" being part of the Browns logo. In the '80's (i believe), the Browns defense was refereed to as something similar to "a pack of wild dogs." The fans at the time then kinda adopted that same idea, and thus... the world famous Dawg Pound.

A lot of people don't understand. In Cleveland, we had a nice baseball team for 10 or 12 years, and the Cavs are in the top 3 teams in the NBA for a few years... but Cleveland is a hard-nosed, hard-working town, which is why we relate to much to the hard-nosed game of football. The name of the foot ball stadium is CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM... not Gillete Stadium, Viagra Field, Cambel's Soup Arena. The Fans are so much a part of the team like no place else.

Thats why i love the Dawg being a part of the Browns.

BBTV already brought up why the whole "we're a blue collar town" thing doesn't fly. I'm not doubting there aren't passionate Browns fans, of course there are. Are they more passionate then fans in, say, Philadelphia or Chicago though? Probably not.

As for the dog imagery, again the Dawg Pound is not the team. Would a pig logo make sense for the Redskins? Would Darth Vader's helmet make sense as a Raiders logo (as awesome as it would be)? No. Fan communities will take on identities of their own, there's nothing wrong with that. The team shouldn't change its own identity to match that of the fan community, however. That's an example of the tail wagging the dog (no pun intended). So sure, the Dawg Pound thing is great for that subsect of the Browns' fanbase, but it doesn't work as an overall team identity.

Again, the name Browns will always be ambiguous. So why try nailing down the team name to a concrete image? Play off the traditional football image and use the =B= logo.

If I had to guess, I'd say Cleveland is SLIGHTLY more passionate about the Browns than Phily is about the Eagles... I could be wrong though. But Chicago? Considering that the Browns play in a significantly larger stadium (that they somewhat regularly sell-out) despite being a fraction of Chicago's size, I'd say Cleveland is definitely the more passionate city.

Wow... that's the second time today that I put Cleveland over Chicago... weird.

[FiddySicks]

i understand the draw backs of stereotyping... but the history of Cleveland is the hard-nosed stereotype, defined to a T. Now, every city has a special relationship with its fans, but Cleveland Browns football is a lot more a part of the community than other places like a New York, California teams, even a lot of the Texas teams.

Funny considering both of the Texas and New York teams, and the 49ers had higher attendance than the Browns this season.

[ESTONES6]

I'm the opposite. I can't stand that dog logo. The "dog" imagery is only related to one subsect of the larger Cleveland Browns fanbase, those guys in the "Dawg Pound," and from what I've heard from other Browns fans, they do not represent the majority of the team's fanbase. It would be like Redskins adopting a pig logo because of those hog guys, or the Raiders petitioning to use Darth Vader.

The elf is nice, but it's a catch-22 if you ask me. On one hand the original mark is dated, and would need to be cleaned up/streamlined a bit ala the Cardinals' new logo. Yet on the other hand, the very concept of the elf logo is dated, and updating him to look more "modern" would come across as silly.

I like the =B= logo because it's simple and has a traditional feel to it. The name Browns will always have an ambiguous quality to it, so why try to nail it down to a concrete image like a dog or elf? Why not play up the "football team" aspect?

I love the Dawg logo. Now, i do NOT want it on the helmet. The helmet should always be orange with brown and white stripes. However, i love the "Dawg" being part of the Browns logo. In the '80's (i believe), the Browns defense was refereed to as something similar to "a pack of wild dogs." The fans at the time then kinda adopted that same idea, and thus... the world famous Dawg Pound.

A lot of people don't understand. In Cleveland, we had a nice baseball team for 10 or 12 years, and the Cavs are in the top 3 teams in the NBA for a few years... but Cleveland is a hard-nosed, hard-working town, which is why we relate to much to the hard-nosed game of football. The name of the foot ball stadium is CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM... not Gillete Stadium, Viagra Field, Cambel's Soup Arena. The Fans are so much a part of the team like no place else.

Thats why i love the Dawg being a part of the Browns.

BBTV already brought up why the whole "we're a blue collar town" thing doesn't fly. I'm not doubting there aren't passionate Browns fans, of course there are. Are they more passionate then fans in, say, Philadelphia or Chicago though? Probably not.

As for the dog imagery, again the Dawg Pound is not the team. Would a pig logo make sense for the Redskins? Would Darth Vader's helmet make sense as a Raiders logo (as awesome as it would be)? No. Fan communities will take on identities of their own, there's nothing wrong with that. The team shouldn't change its own identity to match that of the fan community, however. That's an example of the tail wagging the dog (no pun intended). So sure, the Dawg Pound thing is great for that subsect of the Browns' fanbase, but it doesn't work as an overall team identity.

Again, the name Browns will always be ambiguous. So why try nailing down the team name to a concrete image? Play off the traditional football image and use the =B= logo.

I think you missed one of my points earlier. In the 80's, the Browns Defense was called the Dawgs or the Dawg Pound... that was their nickname. It grew to the fans in the end zone seats when the Dawg Pound defense of the era would be defending the red zone and the fans gained recognition for how loud they were, and the throwing of dog food onto the field at the other teams.

Now, if people want to debate whether or not the Browns fan base has a little bit stronger fanbase than the majority of the league, the Dawg Pound logo is registered by the NFL for memorabilia... To my knowledge (i may be wrong), the Browns are the only team in the NFL that has that. EDIT: "that" meaning memorabilia specifically for the fans.

[ESTONES6]

i understand the draw backs of stereotyping... but the history of Cleveland is the hard-nosed stereotype, defined to a T. Now, every city has a special relationship with its fans, but Cleveland Browns football is a lot more a part of the community than other places like a New York, California teams, even a lot of the Texas teams.

Funny considering both of the Texas and New York teams, and the 49ers had higher attendance than the Browns this season.

my argument wasn't about attendance for the year, it was about how much the team is integrated into the City and the citizens. I understand it is hard for an outsider to see it, but the Browns fan base is definitely recognized around the country and around the world (as are other teams).

[IceCap]

I'm the opposite. I can't stand that dog logo. The "dog" imagery is only related to one subsect of the larger Cleveland Browns fanbase, those guys in the "Dawg Pound," and from what I've heard from other Browns fans, they do not represent the majority of the team's fanbase. It would be like Redskins adopting a pig logo because of those hog guys, or the Raiders petitioning to use Darth Vader.

The elf is nice, but it's a catch-22 if you ask me. On one hand the original mark is dated, and would need to be cleaned up/streamlined a bit ala the Cardinals' new logo. Yet on the other hand, the very concept of the elf logo is dated, and updating him to look more "modern" would come across as silly.

I like the =B= logo because it's simple and has a traditional feel to it. The name Browns will always have an ambiguous quality to it, so why try to nail it down to a concrete image like a dog or elf? Why not play up the "football team" aspect?

I love the Dawg logo. Now, i do NOT want it on the helmet. The helmet should always be orange with brown and white stripes. However, i love the "Dawg" being part of the Browns logo. In the '80's (i believe), the Browns defense was refereed to as something similar to "a pack of wild dogs." The fans at the time then kinda adopted that same idea, and thus... the world famous Dawg Pound.

A lot of people don't understand. In Cleveland, we had a nice baseball team for 10 or 12 years, and the Cavs are in the top 3 teams in the NBA for a few years... but Cleveland is a hard-nosed, hard-working town, which is why we relate to much to the hard-nosed game of football. The name of the foot ball stadium is CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM... not Gillete Stadium, Viagra Field, Cambel's Soup Arena. The Fans are so much a part of the team like no place else.

Thats why i love the Dawg being a part of the Browns.

BBTV already brought up why the whole "we're a blue collar town" thing doesn't fly. I'm not doubting there aren't passionate Browns fans, of course there are. Are they more passionate then fans in, say, Philadelphia or Chicago though? Probably not.

As for the dog imagery, again the Dawg Pound is not the team. Would a pig logo make sense for the Redskins? Would Darth Vader's helmet make sense as a Raiders logo (as awesome as it would be)? No. Fan communities will take on identities of their own, there's nothing wrong with that. The team shouldn't change its own identity to match that of the fan community, however. That's an example of the tail wagging the dog (no pun intended). So sure, the Dawg Pound thing is great for that subsect of the Browns' fanbase, but it doesn't work as an overall team identity.

Again, the name Browns will always be ambiguous. So why try nailing down the team name to a concrete image? Play off the traditional football image and use the =B= logo.

I think you missed one of my points earlier. In the 80's, the Browns Defense was called the Dawgs or the Dawg Pound... that was their nickname. It grew to the fans in the end zone seats when the Dawg Pound defense of the era would be defending the red zone and the fans gained recognition for how loud they were, and the throwing of dog food onto the field at the other teams.

So? The Broncos' D was once known as the Orange Crush Defence, but you don't see anyone trying to get this integrated into the Broncos' identity do you? This won't be making into the Vikings' identity any time soon, despite the fact that their D was once known by that name. So the fact that once upon a time the D for the Browns was once known as a "Pack of Wild Dogs" isn't enough to warrant making a bull dog logo the team's primary.

Also, something you seem to have forgotten, the Dawg Pound is not the entirety of the Cleveland Browns' fanbase. There are plenty of Browns fans (some of them even white collar *gasp*) who do not associate themselves with the Dawg Pound. So taking an image that only represents a portion of the team's fanbase and making it the official mark of the team risks alienating a good portion of said fanbase.

And again, forgive me if I don't buy the "Cleveland has a special connection with its pro football team that no other city has" story. I'm sure Browns fans are passionate, and I'm sure the team is a vital part of the community. I'm also sure, however, that this is the case in Chicago, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Philadelphia, Detroit, Buffalo, and many more cities on top of that.

Throwing dog food at the opposing team doesn't make your fanbase more dedicated then others, it shows that your fanbase lacks class. Philly fans may have booed Santa, but they never threw garbage at the refs.

Now, if people want to debate whether or not the Browns fan base has a little bit stronger fanbase than the majority of the league, the Dawg Pound logo is registered by the NFL for memorabilia... To my knowledge (i may be wrong), the Browns are the only team in the NFL that has that. EDIT: "that" meaning memorabilia specifically for the fans.

I was under the impression all memorabilia was for the fans.

[BBTV]

People in [city that I live in] work harder than anyone in any other city.

People in [city that I live in] care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

[city that I live in] has the best skyline and the best buildings out of all the other cities.

Girls in [city that I live in] are prettier than girls in any other city.

I've never been anywhere other than [city that I live in], but you don't understand how different it is here.

Shut up.

[koizim]

People in [city that I live in] work harder than anyone in any other city.

People in [city that I live in] care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

[city that I live in] has the best skyline and the best buildings out of all the other cities.

Girls in [city that I live in] are prettier than girls in any other city.

I've never been anywhere other than [city that I live in], but you don't understand how different it is here.

Shut up.

Must...not...make...joke...about...[insert city here]...

[tubby34]

People in MIAMI work harder than anyone in any other city.

People in MIAMI care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

MIAMI has the best skyline and the best buildings out of all the other cities.

Girls in MIAMI are prettier than girls in any other city.

I've never been anywhere other than MIAMI, but you don't understand how different it is here.

Only one of these is true, which one? LOL.

[Sodboy13]

Except half the time in Miami, the "girls" turn out to be dudes.

[raz]

i understand the draw backs of stereotyping... but the history of Cleveland is the hard-nosed stereotype, defined to a T. Now, every city has a special relationship with its fans, but Cleveland Browns football is a lot more a part of the community than other places like a New York, California teams, even a lot of the Texas teams.

I'm not a fan, but nobody can beat Green Bay on this count. The city owns the damn team.

Except half the time in Miami, the "girls" turn out to be dudes.

Ouch.

[AndrewG70]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

[rams80]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

Anyone care to flash Bruins and Blackhawks attendance figures from earlier in the decade and Islanders figures throughout the decade up here?