NFL 2010-2011

[Discrim]

Sleeve stripes are essentially simply a logo that is slapped on to the jersey. It might as well just be a patch. These teams should have official alt logos that consist of merely a striped rectangle.

you know, that actually seems like a good idea. I figure something about as wide as the Eagles logo (or a bit wider) would work.

[oldschoolvikings]

"See our river that catches on Fire"

"Our main export is crippling depression"

"Atleast we're not Detroit!"

Is it possible that just one time, we can have a discussion about cities and not have someone who has never been to Detroit take a lame Detroit shot?

[IceCap]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

Anyone care to flash Bruins and Blackhawks attendance figures from earlier in the decade and Islanders figures throughout the decade up here?

A quick scan of the NHL's attendance figures over the past decade (2001-2010) indicates that though the Blackhawks and Islanders have faired subpar at times, they've never reached the lows that the Coyotes have reached this season, just a few months removed of a relocation scare at that. The Coyotes average 10,700 fans a game, and on more then one occasion they've drawn less then 10,000. Also of note, the Blackhawks and Islanders have drawn poorly when they were losing regularly. The Coyotes are among the NHL's top teams this year, and yet are drawing the worst numbers of any NHL team this decade.

[TheOldRoman]

A quick scan of the NHL's attendance figures over the past decade (2001-2010) indicates that though the Blackhawks and Islanders have faired subpar at times, they've never reached the lows that the Coyotes have reached this season, just a few months removed of a relocation scare at that. The Coyotes average 10,700 fans a game, and on more then one occasion they've drawn less then 10,000. Also of note, the Blackhawks and Islanders have drawn poorly when they were losing regularly. The Coyotes are among the NHL's top teams this year, and yet are drawing the worst numbers of any NHL team this decade.

I am not going to defend the Coyotes or argue that they can thrive in Phoenix, but I think using this year as an arguement is disingenuous. With all that happened in the offseason, I don't think any team would be garnering interest from its fans. Even though the NHL is committed to Phoenix for now, this is still a lame duck franchise. You can't hold this against the fans.

[Gothamite]

I know Packers fans don't like hearing it, but this is proof that the team would be wise to usher in some "Aaron Rodgers era" unis. They don't have to go that far from the Ron Wolf era/bastardized Lombardi era unis, but something that wouldn't look so awkward and forced on modern templates.

I actually like those Ron Wolf uniforms. The Pack should have made the change when they had the chance.

This Packers fan would welcome it. Said so at the time, say so now. A missed opportunity.

At the very least, it's time to take the stripes off the sleeves, since football players don't actually wear sleeves anymore. Move them to the compression undershirts, or eliminate them entirely.

[The_Admiral]

Considering that the Browns play in a significantly larger stadium (that they somewhat regularly sell-out) despite being a fraction of Chicago's size, I'd say Cleveland is definitely the more passionate city.

The Browns have a lot of no-shows and the Bears play in a lousy stadium. I'm not really parsing your passion-per-capita metric.

[ESTONES6]

yeah, a lot of the BS has finally hit the fan in Cleveland with the Browns. Towards the middle of the season, a lot of people were showing up late to games, if showing up at all.

[rams80]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

Anyone care to flash Bruins and Blackhawks attendance figures from earlier in the decade and Islanders figures throughout the decade up here?

A quick scan of the NHL's attendance figures over the past decade (2001-2010) indicates that though the Blackhawks and Islanders have faired subpar at times, they've never reached the lows that the Coyotes have reached this season, just a few months removed of a relocation scare at that. The Coyotes average 10,700 fans a game, and on more then one occasion they've drawn less then 10,000. Also of note, the Blackhawks and Islanders have drawn poorly when they were losing regularly. The Coyotes are among the NHL's top teams this year, and yet are drawing the worst numbers of any NHL team this decade.

When the offseason was spent doing to this hockey market what Rome did to Carthage, this is hardly surprising.

yeah, a lot of the BS has finally hit the fan in Cleveland with the Browns. Towards the middle of the season, a lot of people were showing up late to games, if showing up at all.

So Clevelanders aren't passionate?

[IceCap]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

Anyone care to flash Bruins and Blackhawks attendance figures from earlier in the decade and Islanders figures throughout the decade up here?

A quick scan of the NHL's attendance figures over the past decade (2001-2010) indicates that though the Blackhawks and Islanders have faired subpar at times, they've never reached the lows that the Coyotes have reached this season, just a few months removed of a relocation scare at that. The Coyotes average 10,700 fans a game, and on more then one occasion they've drawn less then 10,000. Also of note, the Blackhawks and Islanders have drawn poorly when they were losing regularly. The Coyotes are among the NHL's top teams this year, and yet are drawing the worst numbers of any NHL team this decade.

When the offseason was spent doing to this hockey market what Rome did to Carthage, this is hardly surprising.

I'm not sure I buy that excuse. Shouldn't the near-miss relocation scare have galvanized the fanbase into supporting the team? That, combined with the team actually playing well, should make for at the very least a decent average.

[rams80]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

Anyone care to flash Bruins and Blackhawks attendance figures from earlier in the decade and Islanders figures throughout the decade up here?

A quick scan of the NHL's attendance figures over the past decade (2001-2010) indicates that though the Blackhawks and Islanders have faired subpar at times, they've never reached the lows that the Coyotes have reached this season, just a few months removed of a relocation scare at that. The Coyotes average 10,700 fans a game, and on more then one occasion they've drawn less then 10,000. Also of note, the Blackhawks and Islanders have drawn poorly when they were losing regularly. The Coyotes are among the NHL's top teams this year, and yet are drawing the worst numbers of any NHL team this decade.

When the offseason was spent doing to this hockey market what Rome did to Carthage, this is hardly surprising.

I'm not sure I buy that excuse. Shouldn't the near-miss relocation scare have galvanized the fanbase into supporting the team? That, combined with the team actually playing well, should make for at the very least a decent average.

The outcome of the Balsillie case did not do anything to solidify the team's position. Indeed, the general narrative as presented following the case (if not from the NHL) is that the team is still going to move just as soon as somebody buys it. Combine that with an inability and lack of time to establish a solid marketing campaign (or even a ticket drive for the season) and here we are with the Coyotes' poor attendance.

SO! HOW ABOUT THOSE NEW NFL UNIFORMS?

[tubby34]

Except half the time in Miami, the "girls" turn out to be dudes.

Yeah, if your going out looking for prostitutes, lol.

Are you speaking from experiance?

[IceCap]

People in PHOENIX care about their teams more than anyone in any other city.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I've lived in a few cities in my lifetime, and nowhere is there more apathy towards the local pro sports teams than here in the Valley of the Sun. Last season, the Cardinals were set to play in their first-ever home playoff game and it very nearly got blacked out on local TV! The Phoenix Mercury play in the WNBA Finals in front of a half-empty US Airways Center. Earlier this season, the Coyotes played a regular season game against the Kings before less than 5500 fans. Folks, these pathetic displays of "fan" support would never happen in Boston, New York or Chicago.

Anyone care to flash Bruins and Blackhawks attendance figures from earlier in the decade and Islanders figures throughout the decade up here?

A quick scan of the NHL's attendance figures over the past decade (2001-2010) indicates that though the Blackhawks and Islanders have faired subpar at times, they've never reached the lows that the Coyotes have reached this season, just a few months removed of a relocation scare at that. The Coyotes average 10,700 fans a game, and on more then one occasion they've drawn less then 10,000. Also of note, the Blackhawks and Islanders have drawn poorly when they were losing regularly. The Coyotes are among the NHL's top teams this year, and yet are drawing the worst numbers of any NHL team this decade.

When the offseason was spent doing to this hockey market what Rome did to Carthage, this is hardly surprising.

I'm not sure I buy that excuse. Shouldn't the near-miss relocation scare have galvanized the fanbase into supporting the team? That, combined with the team actually playing well, should make for at the very least a decent average.

The outcome of the Balsillie case did not do anything to solidify the team's position. Indeed, the general narrative as presented following the case (if not from the NHL) is that the team is still going to move just as soon as somebody buys it. Combine that with an inability and lack of time to establish a solid marketing campaign (or even a ticket drive for the season) and here we are with the Coyotes' poor attendance.

The NHL seems pretty dead set on them staying put. They turned down 100+ million to keep the team away from the guy who wanted to move them.

Regardless, someone mentioned the Coyotes have less then passionate fans, and you wanted to see if the lows in Boston, Long Island, and Chicago matched Phoenix when it came to drawing poor crowds. The numbers say that though they did have their low points, they were never as bad a the Coyotes are now. So that's the answer to your request that someone pull up the Bruins, Islanders, and 'Hawks' figures.

SO! HOW ABOUT THOSE NEW NFL UNIFORMS?

OK!

Aside from a few patches here and there, I don't expect to see anything out of the ordinary, to tell you the truth. I would like to see the rumours about the NY Giants throwing back to 1975 confirmed, but I'm not believing it until I see it.

[illwauk]

I know Packers fans don't like hearing it, but this is proof that the team would be wise to usher in some "Aaron Rodgers era" unis. They don't have to go that far from the Ron Wolf era/bastardized Lombardi era unis, but something that wouldn't look so awkward and forced on modern templates.

I actually like those Ron Wolf uniforms. The Pack should have made the change when they had the chance.

This Packers fan would welcome it. Said so at the time, say so now. A missed opportunity.

At the very least, it's time to take the stripes off the sleeves, since football players don't actually wear sleeves anymore. Move them to the compression undershirts, or eliminate them entirely.

Maybe I should've worded it differently... I was referring to the changes Wolf actually did make to the uniform. Mainly, the move from 5 stripes to 3. But I guess what they have now is more of a bland mix between the original Lombardi unis and the Forrest Gregg unis from the 80s.

But given that the team back on the upswing under a new regime and the guy the current unis are associated with has done all he can to s**t all over the people who embraced him and literally watched him "grow up," I think right now is another opportunity to make some changes that are needed for technical (if no other) reasons. After seeing LSU's pro combat helmets, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see the Packers move to that shade of gold rather than the one Wolf proposed. To me, the best part of the Packers uniforms is their uniquely-colored shells (aside from the Steelers throwbacks, they're the only team that uses yellow). Any change that would take that away would be a downgrade IMO.

[crashcarson15]

"See our river that catches on Fire"

"Our main export is crippling depression"

"Atleast we're not Detroit!"

Is it possible that just one time, we can have a discussion about cities and not have someone who has never been to Detroit take a lame Detroit shot?

"Don't slow down in East Cleveland or you'll die"

"Buy a house for the price of a VCR"

"Our economy's based on LeBron James"

[Jungle Jim]

-New Orleans...their striping on their helmet makes no sense when paired with their home uniform...

Thank you! I made this very point here a few weeks ago, but didn't get any agreement. If there's any helmet that could really be improved by losing the racing stripes, it's the Saints'. That logo would really lend itself to being used without the stripes, and the fact that there are no stripes on the uniform makes it even more so.

[jimbojohnny56]

Dude, never agree with dennisbergan.

[oldschoolvikings]

Dude, never agree with dennisbergan.

Yeah, actually the opposite is true... they need to not only keep the helmet stripes, they need to match them on the pants.

[Discrim]

I know Packers fans don't like hearing it, but this is proof that the team would be wise to usher in some "Aaron Rodgers era" unis. They don't have to go that far from the Ron Wolf era/bastardized Lombardi era unis, but something that wouldn't look so awkward and forced on modern templates.

I actually like those Ron Wolf uniforms. The Pack should have made the change when they had the chance.

This Packers fan would welcome it. Said so at the time, say so now. A missed opportunity.

At the very least, it's time to take the stripes off the sleeves, since football players don't actually wear sleeves anymore. Move them to the compression undershirts, or eliminate them entirely.

Maybe I should've worded it differently... I was referring to the changes Wolf actually did make to the uniform. Mainly, the move from 5 stripes to 3. But I guess what they have now is more of a bland mix between the original Lombardi unis and the Forrest Gregg unis from the 80s.

But given that the team back on the upswing under a new regime and the guy the current unis are associated with has done all he can to s**t all over the people who embraced him and literally watched him "grow up," I think right now is another opportunity to make some changes that are needed for technical (if no other) reasons. After seeing LSU's pro combat helmets, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see the Packers move to that shade of gold rather than the one Wolf proposed. To me, the best part of the Packers uniforms is their uniquely-colored shells (aside from the Steelers throwbacks, they're the only team that uses yellow). Any change that would take that away would be a downgrade IMO.

I loved that shade of gold on LSU, mainly cus that still looked like an LSU uniform, they didn't look like somebody else. Some would get on the Packers for trying to look like the Saints/Niners if they went to any metallic shade of gold, to be honest, but the Pack could probably come up with something that you'd still be able to glance at and say "yup, that's the Packers"

[dennisbergan]

Dude, never agree with dennisbergan.

Yeah, actually the opposite is true... they need to not only keep the helmet stripes, they need to match them on the pants.

The helmet stripes, with that entire uniform, stick out like a sore thumb.

With the home black uniform (whether its with gold or black pants), there is no point in having a white stripe on the helmet. There is very little (if any) white in the entire uniform. It USED to make sense, when the Saints pants stripes matched the helmet (or were very similar to the helmet). Back then, they had white in their uniform.

Today, its out-of-place.

[Chawls]

Dude, never agree with dennisbergan.

Yeah, actually the opposite is true... they need to not only keep the helmet stripes, they need to match them on the pants.

The helmet stripes, with that entire uniform, stick out like a sore thumb.

With the home black uniform (whether its with gold or black pants), there is no point in having a white stripe on the helmet. There is very little (if any) white in the entire uniform. It USED to make sense, when the Saints pants stripes matched the helmet (or were very similar to the helmet). Back then, they had white in their uniform.

Today, its out-of-place.

The Redskins' helmet stripes don't match their uniforms either. Why doesn't anybody butch about them?