College Football 2012 Season

[TimEOBrien]

Ok, first, I'm asking a direct question to Andrew so all this other conversation is moot.

Second, I'm not saying I like or hate the mizzou helmet and I'm not saying its better or worse than the NU helmet or any other helmet. I just want to hear why this helmet logo is so spectacularly bad in Andrew's opinion.

Third, I've been exposed to NU athletics for 25 years, so I've seen the cat logo by itself plenty of times, like on a proposed BBall court design last year, so the claim that it is a hack job is just false (though I admit it usually is a part of the NCat logo and hasn't ever appeared by itself on a uni, it has been used in other aspects).

[shaydre1019]

TCU went purple chrome/black/black

Growing up in Fort Worth and now being a Red Raider, yesterday's game was hard on the eyes. I'd been looking forward to seeing these teams duke it out for a long time and all I could see watching TCU was Nike's stupid gimmicks ruining what should've been a decent looking game. Tech's unis are also less than perfect but that's expected from UA

I thought tcu looked terrific yesterday, I really don't know how any Nike gimmicks ruined anything. Those helmets looked great and they matched. I love pretty much very tcu UNO except the anthracite one, that one just looks bad and messy.

[andrewharrington]

Ok, first, I'm asking a direct question to Andrew so all this other conversation is moot.

Second, I'm not saying I like or hate the mizzou helmet and I'm not saying its better or worse than the NU helmet or any other helmet. I just want to hear why this helmet logo is so spectacularly bad in Andrew's opinion.

Third, I've been exposed to NU athletics for 25 years, so I've seen the cat logo by itself plenty of times, like on a proposed BBall court design last year, so the claim that it is a hack job is just false (though I admit it usually is a part of the NCat logo and hasn't ever appeared by itself on a uni, it has been used in other aspects).

Kind of strange that I'm having to explain this, but here goes. This is the logo as it's designed and intended to look. White cat with single black (or dark) outline, no matter if we're looking at the logo on a light field or a dark field. Not a particualrly great illustration by any means, but it's colored up properly so that it's very clearly and very simply, a wildcat.

Now, looking at the black helmet, you'll see that these guidelines are violated. Occasionally, you'll see merchandise fall through the cracks that has a reversed logo:

As opposed to the correct usage for a dark field:

But to take the shapes without any differentiation in color and simply outline them all is totally inexcusable. All the definition of light and shadow that is provided by the illustration (as designed) is lost. The read of the cat is completely compromised, and to go further, this is an official university logo on the school's most nationally visible athetic program. You can't just modify it willy nilly. That's why colleges provide licensees with identity guidelines, so that logos aren't ruined on licensed merchandise like it was on this helmet. Those standards help the schools police the way their logos are seen so that the usage always makes it clear that the logo is a mark of the university and the integrity of the mark is not compromised. Otherwise, it's just a graphic that can be interpreted as anyone sees fit. Making a logo one-color (Missouri) is fine as long as the readability of the logo is not compromised from full-color version to one color version. I'm not even positive a t-shirt with that wildcat helmet logo on it would have even been approved by the university.

Why is Toledo using Tennessee's intelocking UT logo on their helmets tonight?

I'm not watching the game and haven't seen any pics. Is it anything like this?

That looks more like Texas' interlocking UT.

no, i'm thinking Indiana's but with a line at the top to look like a t.

Here's the Texas logo:

And here the Indiana logo:

But I swear I've seen a Texas logo that looks more like the one on the Toldeo picture.

It's actually Toledo's logo from the 60's. Before the 1980s or so, pretty much every school's logo was either a varsity block letter or varsity block monogram. Ohio also had a OU monogram like Oklahoma's, Western Michigan used the same W that Wisconsin and Washington did at the time, and Miami (and pretty much every school with an M in its name) used the block M that we all associate with Michigan now.

Was just going to post this. I've been waiting for UT to do a helmet like this for ages.

Ohio's used many different OU monograms over the years. Their older one was pretty original looking, but their official block monogram for years had serifs to differentiate it from Oklahoma's. They do, however, do a marching band formation with a logo quite similar to Oklahoma's. Still, Ohio is the only 'real' OU, so in my mind, The University of Oklahoma can take its OU logos and shove them.

[BrandMooreArt]

Ok, first, I'm asking a direct question to Andrew so all this other conversation is moot.

Second, I'm not saying I like or hate the mizzou helmet and I'm not saying its better or worse than the NU helmet or any other helmet. I just want to hear why this helmet logo is so spectacularly bad in Andrew's opinion.

Tim, surely you have good enough taste and standards for design, that you dont actually think that cat is a decent piece of art work?

[illwauk]

Growing up in Fort Worth and now being a Red Raider, yesterday's game was hard on the eyes. I'd been looking forward to seeing these teams duke it out for a long time and all I could see watching TCU was Nike's stupid gimmicks ruining what should've been a decent looking game. Tech's unis are also less than perfect but that's expected from UA

I thought tcu looked terrific yesterday, I really don't know how any Nike gimmicks ruined anything. Those helmets looked great and they matched. I love pretty much very tcu UNO except the anthracite one, that one just looks bad and messy.

You'd think TCU would wait until they were playing at team that didn't have so much black in its uniform before going mono-black. Then again, you'd think a team calling itself the Red Raiders would wear a lot more red than they do.

TCU's helmets looked great though.

[twi]

My thoughts on the new helmets seen this week pretty much match up with the consensus it appears. Boise St: Yes it was unnecessary but that black helmet looked awesome. Easily the best of the three different huge horse head helmets they've had.

Toledo: I like it. The logo seems more appropriate for a helmet than their regular rocket logo does. I'm not advocating for the demise of that logo, just that it doesn't take up enough space on the helmet.

Northwestern: Didn't work for me. The general idea has been done numerous times (Missouri, Boise) and the cat head on it's own isn't as strong as either of those two.

Oklahoma St: Not bad, but the orange hat gets lost on the orange helmet. Very hard to discern what the logo is unless it's a posed shot.

Michigan St: With some tweaks this could be good but as it was, it was terrible. The green needs to match better and instead of silver they should have used bronze. It would provide better contrast/visibility and tie in with the outline on the numbers on the jerseys.

To sum up the week, I'm disheartened. While these looks were new for the respective teams, they weren't anything that hasn't been done before.

[Bmac]

Why is Toledo using Tennessee's intelocking UT logo on their helmets tonight?

I'm not watching the game and haven't seen any pics. Is it anything like this?

That looks more like Texas' interlocking UT.

no, i'm thinking Indiana's but with a line at the top to look like a t.

Here's the Texas logo:

And here the Indiana logo:

But I swear I've seen a Texas logo that looks more like the one on the Toldeo picture.

It's actually Toledo's logo from the 60's. Before the 1980s or so, pretty much every school's logo was either a varsity block letter or varsity block monogram. Ohio also had a OU monogram like Oklahoma's, Western Michigan used the same W that Wisconsin and Washington did at the time, and Miami (and pretty much every school with an M in its name) used the block M that we all associate with Michigan now.

FWIW this is the Tennessee logo I was thinking of (from the baseball team):

[TimEOBrien]

Ok, first, I'm asking a direct question to Andrew so all this other conversation is moot.

Second, I'm not saying I like or hate the mizzou helmet and I'm not saying its better or worse than the NU helmet or any other helmet. I just want to hear why this helmet logo is so spectacularly bad in Andrew's opinion.

Tim, surely you have good enough taste and standards for design, that you dont actually think that cat is a decent piece of art work?

I grew up on that logo, I've been to over 100 wildcat games in different states and timezones since - literally - before I can remember and am still a season ticket holder even after attending Indiana for my undergrad. I love NU football and everything it entails (even the heart-wrenching pain) because it reminds me of Saturdays with my entire family, something I'll rarely ever experience for the rest of my life. So when you ask me if I love that logo, I say emphatically, "Yes," because that love is not rational, it's sentimental.

Now, if you were to ask me if that logo is flawed and dated and not what I would expect if I were to commission a university a brand new 'wildcat' logo I would say it is flawed and it is dated and is isn't something I'd expect from a top flight branding, but I love it - not because of - but in spite of it's flaws.

Ok, first, I'm asking a direct question to Andrew so all this other conversation is moot.

Second, I'm not saying I like or hate the mizzou helmet and I'm not saying its better or worse than the NU helmet or any other helmet. I just want to hear why this helmet logo is so spectacularly bad in Andrew's opinion.

Third, I've been exposed to NU athletics for 25 years, so I've seen the cat logo by itself plenty of times, like on a proposed BBall court design last year, so the claim that it is a hack job is just false (though I admit it usually is a part of the NCat logo and hasn't ever appeared by itself on a uni, it has been used in other aspects).

Kind of strange that I'm having to explain this, but here goes. This is the logo as it's designed and intended to look. White cat with single black (or dark) outline, no matter if we're looking at the logo on a light field or a dark field. Not a particualrly great illustration by any means, but it's colored up properly so that it's very clearly and very simply, a wildcat.

Now, looking at the black helmet, you'll see that these guidelines are violated. Occasionally, you'll see merchandise fall through the cracks that has a reversed logo:

As opposed to the correct usage for a dark field:

But to take the shapes without any differentiation in color and simply outline them all is totally inexcusable. All the definition of light and shadow that is provided by the illustration (as designed) is lost. The read of the cat is completely compromised, and to go further, this is an official university logo on the school's most nationally visible athetic program. You can't just modify it willy nilly. That's why colleges provide licensees with identity guidelines, so that logos aren't ruined on licensed merchandise like it was on this helmet. Those standards help the schools police the way their logos are seen so that the usage always makes it clear that the logo is a mark of the university and the integrity of the mark is not compromised. Otherwise, it's just a graphic that can be interpreted as anyone sees fit. Making a logo one-color (Missouri) is fine as long as the readability of the logo is not compromised from full-color version to one color version. I'm not even positive a t-shirt with that wildcat helmet logo on it would have even been approved by the university.

I just was wondering what your specific gripe was and I'm glad you gave such an in depth answer. Thanks.

Take solace that neither you nor I want to ever see that helmet again (though, because you think it's terrible and because I think it's just meh and NU already has a perfect helmet...).

And too be fair, NU has broken your rule that you think only, "merchandise [that] fall through the cracks," but actually, Northwestern had a reversed logo on their unis in the '90s. It still looked bad back then though, so...

[TimEOBrien]

And can I just say, if you take the N-Cat logo and fix only the eye and the snout (leave the head shape and the teeth/mouth but the eye and snout could admittedly use some work) that that's a pretty darn good logo. I mean, sure it's not BHawks Indian head or [insert your "perfectly timeless" logo], but the general shape and design isn't fatally flawed, is it?

Or am I just biased?

[TheOneAndOnlyMau]

And can I just say, if you take the N-Cat logo and fix only the eye and the snout (leave the head shape and the teeth/mouth but the eye and snout could admittedly use some work) that that's a pretty darn good logo. I mean, sure it's not BHawks Indian head or [insert your "perfectly timeless" logo], but the general shape and design isn't fatally flawed, is it?

Or am I just biased?

I definitely think it has potential to be a great logo, it just needs some tweaking and modernizing. A modernized cat head logo would look basass on those black helmets

[BrandMooreArt]

And can I just say, if you take the N-Cat logo and fix only the eye and the snout (leave the head shape and the teeth/mouth but the eye and snout could admittedly use some work) that that's a pretty darn good logo. I mean, sure it's not BHawks Indian head or [insert your "perfectly timeless" logo], but the general shape and design isn't fatally flawed, is it?

Or am I just biased?

i would just say you're biased, lol. really, it was not created by a skilled artist. i totally understand your sentimental connection to it, but this is not a logo that gives the impression of a high quality, respectable college. below is an example of what a good cat logo can be

[frosty06306]

And can I just say, if you take the N-Cat logo and fix only the eye and the snout (leave the head shape and the teeth/mouth but the eye and snout could admittedly use some work) that that's a pretty darn good logo. I mean, sure it's not BHawks Indian head or [insert your "perfectly timeless" logo], but the general shape and design isn't fatally flawed, is it?

Or am I just biased?

i would just say you're biased, lol. really, it was not created by a skilled artist. i totally understand your sentimental connection to it, but this is not a logo that gives the impression of a high quality, respectable college. below is an example of what a good cat logo can be

No disrespect intended but in no way do I think that logo is good enough for an NFL team or a college team. As an update to the Panthers logo, no thanks, I'll take the real updated logo over this anyday. I don't know how to describe why I don't like this and it appears I'm probably in the extreme minority in this opinion but I would have been pissed if this were rolled out as the new logo.

[JPDesign]

Yeah, I think you're probably a minority there. That's a pretty fine logo right there.

Regardless, the Panthers logo has always reminded me of this

[BrandMooreArt]

And can I just say, if you take the N-Cat logo and fix only the eye and the snout (leave the head shape and the teeth/mouth but the eye and snout could admittedly use some work) that that's a pretty darn good logo. I mean, sure it's not BHawks Indian head or [insert your "perfectly timeless" logo], but the general shape and design isn't fatally flawed, is it?

Or am I just biased?

i would just say you're biased, lol. really, it was not created by a skilled artist. i totally understand your sentimental connection to it, but this is not a logo that gives the impression of a high quality, respectable college. below is an example of what a good cat logo can be

No disrespect intended but in no way do I think that logo is good enough for an NFL team or a college team. As an update to the Panthers logo, no thanks, I'll take the real updated logo over this anyday. I don't know how to describe why I don't like this and it appears I'm probably in the extreme minority in this opinion but I would have been pissed if this were rolled out as the new logo.

i can't help ya

[pianoknight]

I gotta say that I agree that the cat portion of Northwestern's logo is relatively terrible compared to the rest of their brand. The Purple-Ninja "N" is pretty iconic and a great logo. And their current branding with the old school rugby stripes on the chest is pretty awesome too.

But, man the cat itself is so dated looking and it just doesn't translate well into other media without looking distorted. The black-out helmets from Saturday were proof that the logo isn't strong enough to stand on it's own and "needs" the N to balance it out.

[MJWalker45]

Why is Toledo using Tennessee's intelocking UT logo on their helmets tonight?

I'm not watching the game and haven't seen any pics. Is it anything like this?

That looks more like Texas' interlocking UT.

no, i'm thinking Indiana's but with a line at the top to look like a t.

It's one of their historical logos. Looks good on the helmet but strange compared to the whole uniform

[Varsity Blue]

The decal looks great. Mix it with a different uniform and Toledo has a winner.

Texas uses that interlocking UT as does Tulane and Tennessee (but not Tulsa). It would look terrific on Tulane's helmets.

[coogrfan]

HOUSTON

GFGS alt's to be worn for 11/10 Homecoming game vs Tulsa:

Apparently there will also be alt (grey?) helmets that won't be revealed until the day of the game.

[pianoknight]

My thoughts exactly.

[BigDmo]

For a team that just got a whole rebranding and stuff, you'd think they'd be able to afford something other than a Niketeam.com design