Your 2012 National Hockey Lockout Thread

[Magnus]

I have thought, since the 04-05 lockout, that a largely Canadian-based top-level league would have no trouble finding its way if the NHL were not playing. The venues I would choose would be some new arenas, but to start off with, CFL stadiums that are not in use over the winter. Sure, you would need to build roofs over at least half of those, but I believe 50,000 hockey fans would fill places like BC Place and Rogers Centre, even if the sightlines in the nosebleeds were terrible, as long as you limited the amount of home games per season to something like 8 or 9. I believe that's what makes the CFL and NFL work. Their ticket prices are just as high, if not higher than the NHL, and they still manage to fill up their stadia for every game, for the most part.

I am also aware that the TV deals that the NFL gets most of its money off of are unmatchable for any other sport in the States.

I think that if the new upstart league wanted huge TV contracts, the best thing to do would be to have teams play one game per week, on the weekend. Stage them at noon, 1 pm, or 2 pm Eastern time, and hockey fans in Europe could easily tune in while settling down for dinner. The reward for watching their hometown stars play in North America would be once-yearly games in European cities, with all the fanfare that accompanies the NHL Winter Classics.

I don't see why any group of Canada's super-rich has not figured this out yet and made the attempt at it.

[dfwabel]

...and with that, the NHL died and was never seen again.

Good riddance. Time for a new hockey league with competent people in charge.

And where would those teams play? Seriously.

If top level hockey came back as a 16 team league, what venues could they actually play in in which they could gather a TV contract as well as gate revenue?

You don't need 16. 8 would do it for starters. If these cities have venues with seating of 7,500 or better which aren't under lease by an NHL club, they'd be well suited:

1. Hamilton
   
2. Toronto
   
3. Quebec City
   
4. Halifax, or somewhere else in the maritimes
   
5. Hartford
   
6. Minneapolis/St. Paul
   
7. New York/New Jersey
   
8. Houston
   

No Chicago or Los Angeles. No southern markets other than Houston. Only three (Minneapolis, New York, Toronto) where you'd be competing head-to-head if/when the NHL returned. I've said it for two decades and it's more true than ever today - both basketball and hockey's chief pro leagues are capable of being knocked off if there's a combination of the right "battle plan" by an insurgent, and a willingness to sustain MLS-level losses during the first decade to build the brand.

There was a CNBC story on MLS last year which said,

After incurring losses of $250M over its first five years of operation, MLS LLC itself is thought to be approaching profitability (league representatives won’t say whether profitability has actually been reached). It’s been reported, however, that only six of its individual teams have ever broken even and only a couple of teams – the Sounders and Toronto FC – are believed to have made a profit last season.

And they are single entity who controlled salaries to a minimum. The salary cap about $3M per team.

Where would the insurgent league set their cap at to obtain similar talent to that currently in the NHL?

[Magnus]

I think the insurgent league's ability to offer players money would be closely tied to how much in television rights they could squeeze out of Europe. Granted, this would not be a good time period for any new league to attempt that, given the meltdown the European economy seems to be in, but if it were to improve to pre-crisis levels in ten years, I could see it working.

[maz]

The thing is, these guys already are rich enough to own top-level professional teams. They aren't exactly gonna go broke because these teams aren't playing. To them, it's all a matter of getting a deal that gets them even more money than they already have, and at this point it is obvious. So you can't blame the players for wanting their fair piece of the pie since they're the ones who are playing a very dangerous game and risking their health and livelihood. I'm not saying the NHLPA side is without fault, but there's a point where the love of the game is surpassed by looking out for yourself. Personally, I'd take this as the last straw, say this season, decertify, and sue the :censored:ers.

Key sports owners counter-point: Outside of cities paying for venues, the owners put up all the capital (aka financial risk).

Counter-counter-point. The owners' portfolios are diversified enough that they can weather the financial implosion of their hockey teams.

Essentially my point in the first place. These guys aren't billionaires by mistake. And what capital are they putting up when all of their employees save for some office monkeys are doing nothing or in another country right now?

[Sodboy13]

I have thought, since the 04-05 lockout, that a largely Canadian-based top-level league would have no trouble finding its way if the NHL were not playing. The venues I would choose would be some new arenas, but to start off with, CFL stadiums that are not in use over the winter. Sure, you would need to build roofs over at least half of those, but I believe 50,000 hockey fans would fill places like BC Place and Rogers Centre, even if the sightlines in the nosebleeds were terrible, as long as you limited the amount of home games per season to something like 8 or 9. I believe that's what makes the CFL and NFL work. Their ticket prices are just as high, if not higher than the NHL, and they still manage to fill up their stadia for every game, for the most part.

I am also aware that the TV deals that the NFL gets most of its money off of are unmatchable for any other sport in the States.

I think that if the new upstart league wanted huge TV contracts, the best thing to do would be to have teams play one game per week, on the weekend. Stage them at noon, 1 pm, or 2 pm Eastern time, and hockey fans in Europe could easily tune in while settling down for dinner. The reward for watching their hometown stars play in North America would be once-yearly games in European cities, with all the fanfare that accompanies the NHL Winter Classics.

I don't see why any group of Canada's super-rich has not figured this out yet and made the attempt at it.

So, you feel like you didn't get adequately ridiculed for this abysmally stupid idea the last time, eh?

[RyanMcD29]

All this startup league talk.. Since when did I walk into HFBoards on accident?

[rams80]

If we were hfboards more people would be blaming the players and saying that the owners are losing by folding on (sundry minor things) and only getting the players' revenue share down to 50%.

[JQK]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/06/depth-player-were-ready-to-play-when-fehr-told-us-to-hold-out/

[bosrs1]

http://prohockeytalk...us-to-hold-out/

And this is why the owners are playing hardball. The players are starting to crack. They'll probably cave around March 1.

[Gothamite]

Historically, management has always been more able to ride out lockouts than labor.

Fingers crossed, though.

[JackieMoon]

After looking over various NHL players' tweets on Twitter, it's obvious that its just the " :censored:s" on both sides screwing it up for everyone else. Most of the players are wanting to play and really don't care what the agreement is. So us, as hardcore hockey fans need to stand up for us and the players (who want to play) and say FU to the NHL.

[IceCap]

After looking over various NHL players' tweets on Twitter, it's obvious that its just the " :censored:s" on both sides screwing it up for everyone else. Most of the players are wanting to play and really don't care what the agreement is. So us, as hardcore hockey fans need to stand up for us and the players (who want to play) and say FU to the NHL.

I find that hard to believe.

[Gothamite]

I can believe that the more marginal players are willing to settle for scraps, since they don't have much power in the first place. The big names with big contracts can afford to sit out a while, but the paycheck players see their very short window to make a buck in the sport closing before their eyes.

Doesn't mean that they should be allowed to sell themselves and their fellows out, but I can empathize.

[Kevin W.]

Paul Bissonnette can't pay the bills by putzing around on Twitter and he probably isn't on many European teams' shortlists. I'm just using him as an example since I know he's a big time pro-PA guy, AFAIK, but other guys like him will probably take whatever deal they can get since it's their livelihood on the line. Players like Crosby and Ovi aren't really affected by this.

[Sodboy13]

Yeah, Biz was the first one to come to my mind, too. He's the very definition of a marginal player (and would likely be the first to tell you as much), but there's no doubt that he supports the union and the big picture wholeheartedly. And he seems to absorb a lot of crap from idiots because of it.

Speaking of crap from idiots, Jeremy Roenick donned his tricorner hat tonight for an interview and said the players should sign whatever the owners offer them right this minute, because it's important that we have labor peace for the next decade, but the players have spent too much time up to this point thinking about the long term, and shouldn't be concerned about how the owners' latest best-last-and-final offer affects players 5-to-7 years down the line. I liked you a whole lot better when you were crying about all the Cups you never won, J.R.

[ElwoodCuse]

http://prohockeytalk...us-to-hold-out/

The writer responsible for that quote is a shill for the owners and a dope to boot. One of his previous highlights: declaring how the Avs "won" the trade for Semyon Varlamov--you know, the one where they gave the Capitals more in return than if they simply offer sheeted him.

[Sodboy13]

Yeah, Dater's been rather pro-owner in anything of his that's crossed my path during this, and I've gotta say nothing he's written previously has set my world on fire. Is he well-regarded in general?

On the other side, Ryan Lambert has been killing it with some of his lockout pieces, which has really taken me aback. I never particularly cared for his writing during actual hockey, and his no-caps no-punctuation troll gimmick Twitter account is more annoying than anything.

[ElwoodCuse]

Cookie of the day also goes to TSN's Bob McKenzie for his twitter smackdown of fairweather hockey "fan" Bill Simmons. The guy who gave up on the Bruins forever (until they won the Cup) and then started following the Kings because of the NBA lockout, only to forget about them once the NBA came back until, surprise, the Kings won the Cup

[Kevin W.]

Bill Simmons is a complete tool who deserves every bit of scorn heaped on him.

Also, the one positive from this lockout is that it can do nothing to stop Bissonnette from being so damn entertaining on Twitter.

[njmeadowlanders]

I liked you a whole lot better when you were crying about all the Cups you never won, J.R.

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