NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[ManillaToad]

Just give the the Jets 1.0 history to Winnipeg and if Atlanta gets another team give them the Thrashers history. Nobody else wants them. The Bobcats/Hornets retcon is one thing the NBA did right. Pretty sure the CFL has done the same for the Alouettes like three times.

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, ManillaToad said:

Just give the the Jets 1.0 history to Winnipeg and if Atlanta gets another team give them the Thrashers history. Nobody else wants them. The Bobcats/Hornets retcon is one thing the NBA did right. Pretty sure the CFL has done the same for the Alouettes like three times.

 

The talk has been if the Seattle Supersonics come back, that the expansion team will have the history of the Sonics back with them.  

[Dynasty]

1 minute ago, GDAWG said:

 

The talk has been if the Seattle Supersonics come back, that the expansion team will have the history of the Sonics back with them.  

 

Does that include everything? I don't think the Thunder would want to give up that one title... though I don't know what the other benefit would be for them outside of just claiming "Hey look, we won a title before! We're one of those franchises!"

[GDAWG]

37 minutes ago, Dynasty said:

 

Does that include everything? I don't think the Thunder would want to give up that one title... though I don't know what the other benefit would be for them outside of just claiming "Hey look, we won a title before! We're one of those franchises!"

 

The rumors include everything and making the Thunder an expansion team retroactive to 2008.  Again, only rumors though.  

[kolob]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

The rumors include everything and making the Thunder an expansion team retroactive to 2008.  Again, only rumors though.  

 

Yes, rumors. But, I think it's pretty safe to say it will most likely happen the same way New Orleans gave back the Hornets nickname and history to Charlotte. 

 

In the case of the Jets/Thrashers/Coyotes/Utah HC, I think what makes "sense" is Jets 1.0 history goes to Jets 2.0, Coyotes history goes to Utah and Thrashers history stays dormant for a possible Atlanta franchise or possibly stays with Jets 2.0 until or if Atlanta gets another team. 

 

Geez, such a convoluted process of make believe. 

[FiddySicks]

6 hours ago, Sport said:

 

Asked my Phoenix based cousins what the mood is on the ground. The biggest sports fan's response was "There's a small group of culty diehards who are obviously bummed, but most people are indifferent or think it's for the best. I'm not losing any sleep over it." and "we don't have to hear about another arena in Tempe anymore so at least there's that." Also followed up with a text "Always kind of had a hard time caring about them when they were an hour away and always on the verge of moving so I never got emotionally invested." and "Every Coyotes fan I know is weird" and "Kind of made peace with them moving like ten years ago so not that upset about it now."

 

That's a dude who was a child in the 90's when the Jets arrived, grew up in Arizona, went to Arizona State, lives and works in Arizona real estate. Loves the D-backs, Cardinals, Suns, and Sun Devils. A disposable income having, sports loving Phoenix native should be a Coyotes diehard season ticket holder and they never captured him because of everything about them. I think he's kind of a micro case study for everything that went wrong there. 

All of this is 100% correct. But I’d like to highlight the “Coyotes fans are weird” bit, because I had the EXACT same experience with them. Everyone I know/knew from out there that was an actual, legit die hard Coyotes fan was weird as all :censored:. Super confrontational and just in general :censored:ty attitudes, and it never just stuck to hockey. I kinda found Arizona people to be just kind of :censored:ty in general for my Nor Cal hippieish sensibilities, but legit NOBODY I knew that was a big Coyotes fan was very popular. They’re like this obnoxious mixture of the Star Wars Nerds and Libertarians of the sports fan world. Not ideals, just vibes. 

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, FiddySicks said:

All of this is 100% correct. But I’d like to highlight the “Coyotes fans are weird” bit, because I had the EXACT same experience with them. Everyone I know/knew from out there that was an actual, legit die hard Coyotes fan was weird as all :censored:. Super confrontational and just in general :censored:ty attitudes, and it never just stuck to hockey. I kinda found Arizona people to be just kind of :censored:ty in general for my Nor Cal hippieish sensibilities, but legit NOBODY I knew that was a big Coyotes fan was very popular. They’re like this obnoxious mixture of the Star Wars Nerds and Libertarians of the sports fan world. Not ideals, just vibes. 

 

ALL those fanbases are weird! Stars, Predators, Hurricanes, Coyotes, but especially the Coyotes. It's not quite the "acting like the underdog while running up the score" deal that the Patriots have down, but they all have that same siege mentality/persecution complex while existing in relative comfort with teams that generally enjoy a competitive advantage thanks to tax laws and player preferences. It's this constant ping-ponging between smugness and victimhood, but mostly smugness. And a lot of it resolves to these communities mostly existing online without being embedded in the surrounding culture the same way.

 

And Star Wars is actually a great analogue here, because being really into Star Wars used to be the kind of thing you more or less kept to yourself lest people start imagining you as the Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, but now it's like "yeah, I'm such a nerd, I'm really into [the biggest revenue-generating media property in the world]." How do you keep up the "we Sun Belt fans need to stick together" act when, like, everything that matters repeatedly resolves to your favor?

[BBTV]

All teams should become "expansion" teams upon moving.  You can still acknowledge the lineage without it being "official". 

 

The records and history belong to the community.  The new team doesn't have to pretend that they were never the old one, but if the old one ever comes back, it should come back with everything it had.

 

If someone was in the building for some Seattle player scoring 80 points, and then some Seattle 2.0 player sets a "new" franchise record with 50, it's not like anyone is going to be celebrating or acknowledging that 50 is the team record, even if it technically is.

 

You move and change your name?  New team.  You move and keep the name?  Gray area - could go either way.

 

Fight me.

[The_Admiral]

There was a whole weird thing when the Jets came back where Ryan Lambert and all the too-cool-for-the-room Twitter guys of that era were like "you'd better acknowledge that Ilya Kovalchuk is your best player in franchise history or you're gonna be in big trouble mister." Wouldn't that just make our dear pure-hearted Thrashers fans feel worse? 

 

Also, gotta add that comparing Coyotes fans to libertarians is hilarious because...well, do I have to explain it?

[TalktoChuck]

9 hours ago, Dynasty said:

 

Does that include everything? I don't think the Thunder would want to give up that one title... though I don't know what the other benefit would be for them outside of just claiming "Hey look, we won a title before! We're one of those franchises!"

 

The Thunder currently do not acknowledge that title as "theirs." You can tell by the missing title tag on the back of their uniforms.

[Bmac]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

All teams should become "expansion" teams upon moving.  You can still acknowledge the lineage without it being "official". 

 

The records and history belong to the community.  The new team doesn't have to pretend that they were never the old one, but if the old one ever comes back, it should come back with everything it had.

 

If someone was in the building for some Seattle player scoring 80 points, and then some Seattle 2.0 player sets a "new" franchise record with 50, it's not like anyone is going to be celebrating or acknowledging that 50 is the team record, even if it technically is.

 

You move and change your name?  New team.  You move and keep the name?  Gray area - could go either way.

 

Fight me.

 

Strongly agree.

 

As a Minnesota Twins fan, I'm very uncomfortable with all the merchandise that says "established 1901." No, that was the Washington Senators. Likewise, I don't like when the Twins are listed as having won 3 World Series titles. The 1924 title belongs to Washington. The Minnesota Twins began play in 1961 and that's when their history should begin. That doesn't negate the fact that the franchise was relocated from Washington, but it's a new team.

 

With that in mind, I wouldn't be upset in that scenario if the current Washington major league baseball team claimed the 1924 title.

 

Speaking of Senators, I don't care if Ottawa claims the titles of the original Senators franchise.

 

Anyway, give the original Winnipeg Jets historical records to the current Jets franchise. Especially now that the Coyotes are dead. Again, it doesn't negate the fact that the relocations took place, it simply connects the historical franchise records.

[FiddySicks]

1 hour ago, The_Admiral said:

Also, gotta add that comparing Coyotes fans to libertarians is hilarious because...well, do I have to explain it?

That’s why I said “Just the vibes”. Totally opposite ideologies (actually, I can see a libertarian Coyotes bit that has some potential legs), but same “Uggh, him again” feel when they walk into the room. 

[Digby]

10 hours ago, TalktoChuck said:

The Thunder currently do not acknowledge that title as "theirs." You can tell by the missing title tag on the back of their uniforms.

 

 

The Thunder have been a little weird about it. The official records recognize the Seattle history as theirs and they've kept the retired numbers, I think even with the old Sonics jersey-banners hanging in their rafters. But they've passed on displaying that title patch even though they're entitled to do so. Kind of an unusually tactful move from that crowd. At this point it feels like they'd have to officially give the history back to an expansion Sonics franchise at least for the PR of it, but at any rate it doesn't seem like something they're super attached to anyway.

 

The general "vibes" of how a fanbase respects-or-doesn't its predecessor, pre-relocated team seem to be different nowadays. I could sort of understand still following one of the old New York baseball teams across the country when they moved from NYC to California. Now it seems incredibly odd for a fan to claim the history of a team that only relocated to their state 10 years ago. I'll concede that there are certain exceptions (the Raiders being oddly nomadic, I guess it's cute for the Canes to wear Whalers throwbacks for away nights in Boston or NYC but the theme nights in Raleigh are dumb) but that seems like a safe general rule.

 

Anyway, good thing the Coyotes don't have anything to fight over.

[Sport]

16 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

All of this is 100% correct. But I’d like to highlight the “Coyotes fans are weird” bit, because I had the EXACT same experience with them. Everyone I know/knew from out there that was an actual, legit die hard Coyotes fan was weird as all :censored:. Super confrontational and just in general :censored:ty attitudes, and it never just stuck to hockey. I kinda found Arizona people to be just kind of :censored:ty in general for my Nor Cal hippieish sensibilities, but legit NOBODY I knew that was a big Coyotes fan was very popular. They’re like this obnoxious mixture of the Star Wars Nerds and Libertarians of the sports fan world. Not ideals, just vibes. 

 

My read from my cousin is the kind of person who was attracted to the Coyotes wasn't necessarily there because of the hockey, but because they got to be part of a small counter-culture with a built-in persecution complex and then were guarded gatekeepers to new fans. Some people love being underdogs. Like sports hipsterism.

 

So there was this huge barrier for him to see the Coyotes play in person because their arena was located on the dark side of the moon, but even if he had wanted to get into the Coyotes, it was also deeply uncool in his social circles to be a Coyotes fan. 

[FiddySicks]

So rumor is the Tucson Roadrunners won’t be moving to Phoenix, but instead will move to Reno, NV. Solid spot for that, and makes MUCH more sense than plopping a ECHL team at the old Cesar’s lot in South Lake. 
 

Report: Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo plans to relocate Tucson Roadrunners to Reno

[LMU]

All Meruelo really wanted anyway was to have an anchor for his gambling business.  Moving the Roadrunners to a state with legalized gambling accomplishes that for a lot less money.

[Sodboy13]

5 hours ago, LMU said:

All Meruelo really wanted anyway was to have an anchor for his gambling business.  Moving the Roadrunners to a state with legalized gambling accomplishes that for a lot less money.

Well, guess what. Meruelo is already abandoning his Coyotes "ownership" after botching the land auction, and so...

From here, I would guess it's going to be a very short road for the supposed billionaire casino owner who was always suspiciously short on cash.

[Glover]

On 6/25/2024 at 5:37 PM, The_Admiral said:

 

ALL those fanbases are weird! Stars, Predators, Hurricanes, Coyotes, but especially the Coyotes. It's not quite the "acting like the underdog while running up the score" deal that the Patriots have down, but they all have that same siege mentality/persecution complex while existing in relative comfort with teams that generally enjoy a competitive advantage thanks to tax laws and player preferences. It's this constant ping-ponging between smugness and victimhood, but mostly smugness. And a lot of it resolves to these communities mostly existing online without being embedded in the surrounding culture the same way.

The irony in this post is rich.

[TBGKon]

On 6/26/2024 at 4:10 PM, FiddySicks said:

So rumor is the Tucson Roadrunners won’t be moving to Phoenix, but instead will move to Reno, NV. Solid spot for that, and makes MUCH more sense than plopping a ECHL team at the old Cesar’s lot in South Lake. 
 

Report: Arizona Coyotes owner Alex Meruelo plans to relocate Tucson Roadrunners to Reno

Realistically, isn't it a bit saturated with Tahoe starting in 2024 as well?

[Dilbert]

29 minutes ago, TBGKon said:

Realistically, isn't it a bit saturated with Tahoe starting in 2024 as well?

The Golden Knights AHL club is in nearby Henderson, and San Joses AHL club is also in San Jose, so unless one of those clubs kills off its AHL affiliate to partner with Meruelos Reno club, that team is gonna be like how Calgary had their affiliate in Canucks territory in Abbotsford from 09-14. The Heat were not well supported because they were not a Canucks affiliate and were affiliated with a rival.