Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

[Ridleylash]

18 minutes ago, henburg said:

Just as the name "Kraken" wouldn't reference an old meme in any form or fashion visually despite everybody here fixating on that for some reason.

The entire idea is campy, is the issue. Sure, Kraken may sound cool NOW...but what about 10, 20, 30 years later? Would it still be cool then, or would it be a massively dated reference to a fad that didn't stick? It doesn't have the kind of feel a brand needs if it wants to stick around for a long period of time. There's a reason the longest-lasting teams don't have names that are just dedicated to referencing a meme.

 

Oh, it'd maybe be funny to scream out once or twice at a game...but after that, then what? Then the team's stuck with a name that most of their core fanbase doesn't even care for. And that's the danger of trend-chasing names; what happens if the fanbase doesn't attach to the name?

Quote

There's nothing campy about that to me, in fact I think it could look really amazing.

So can Sockeyes, and it both much more locally relevant and doesn't have the stench of a dead meme littered all over it. A salmon, teal and black Native art-themed Sockeyes identity could easily be one of the best of the entire NHL for me.

[Wade Heidt]

12 hours ago, Tygers09 said:

To be honest, I like the name Kraken, BUT being a die hard Wings fan, I dont want them to, solely because of having an Octopus or creature similiar to that. I also like Sockeyes, but I did come up with some of my suggestions:

 

Breakers- The nickname of the old WHL team before being sold and the owner then changed them to the now Thunderbirds, but I'm pretty sure you would have to ask the current owner of the T-Birds for permission though.

 

 

I have really like the idea of Seattle Breakers as the name too.  The major junior team has not been called the Breakers since 1985 so I don't foresee there would have been an uproar to not use it.  I like Seattle Breakers better than the few options it appears it has been determined will be the ones to choose from.

[Walk-Off]

4 hours ago, Hobogrish said:

Sorry Sockeye is a gimmick through the tongue and cheek reference

@Hobogrish, has it crossed your mind that one reason why I regard Kraken as a gimmicky choice for a nickname -- and also a reason why I think that someone who disagrees with me may want the NHL to have a team nicknamed the Kraken (in Seattle or elsewhere) -- is that a Kraken identity for a hockey team has its own potential to inspire a tongue-in-cheek reference?  As I may have mentioned before in this thread, I suspect that part of the appeal of Kraken is a desire among some would-be fans of a Seattle NHL club to see such a team "crackin'"* the bones and other fragile body parts of opposing players on a regular basis.

 

* I know that at least one regular poster in these forums has advocated for Kraken to be pronounced "CRAY-ken," so that it rhymes with "awaken."  However, I expect that, for better or worse, "CRACK-en" will be the more likely official and/or fan-adopted pronunciation should any major professional sports team adopt Kraken as its official nickname.

[Ridleylash]

19 minutes ago, Walk-Off said:

@Hobogrish, has it crossed your mind that one reason why I regard Kraken as a gimmicky choice for a nickname -- and also a reason why I think that someone who disagrees with me may want the NHL to have a team nicknamed the Kraken (in Seattle or elsewhere) -- is that a Kraken identity for a hockey team has its own potential to inspire a tongue-in-cheek reference?  As I may have mentioned before in this thread, I suspect that part of the appeal of Kraken is a desire among some would-be fans of a Seattle NHL club to see such a team "crackin'"* the bones and other fragile body parts of opposing players on a regular basis.

And let's be real; other teams' fans would also shower them with "Kraken under pressure" jokes if they collapse at any point in a season. The name's far from unmockable, it doesn't have any cultural ties and it's kinda just a meme for the sake of a meme.

 

"Sockeyes" is at least more of a solid choice, in my opinion. It has deep local ties, it's a fun name that has a reference without being nothing but one and it would make for a slick identity if done well.

[CreamSoda]

Fremont Brewery, located in Seattle, has a beer called the Sky Kraken.  

[gosioux76]

37 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

Fremont Brewery, located in Seattle, has a beer called the Sky Kraken.  

Well that seals it.

[BigGameBob]

what meme does kraken allegedly reference?

[henburg]

5 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

The entire idea is campy, is the issue. Sure, Kraken may sound cool NOW...but what about 10, 20, 30 years later? Would it still be cool then, or would it be a massively dated reference to a fad that didn't stick? It doesn't have the kind of feel a brand needs if it wants to stick around for a long period of time. There's a reason the longest-lasting teams don't have names that are just dedicated to referencing a meme.

 

Oh, it'd maybe be funny to scream out once or twice at a game...but after that, then what? Then the team's stuck with a name that most of their core fanbase doesn't even care for. And that's the danger of trend-chasing names; what happens if the fanbase doesn't attach to the name?

So can Sockeyes, and it both much more locally relevant and doesn't have the stench of a dead meme littered all over it. A salmon, teal and black Native art-themed Sockeyes identity could easily be one of the best of the entire NHL for me.

 

I still think that the historical origins of the creature and name overshadow any meme-relevance there is to it. I don't see how it could go out of style when it really isn't like it's some flavor of the month fad created solely on social media, it's a legend with legitimate roots. Besides, I'd argue the team using it would inherently grant the nickname permanence in pop culture anyway, allowing it to instantly become the first thing you think of when seeing the word Kraken. I agree on the importance of longevity, but I just don't get how a cheesy movie from the 2000's featuring a Kraken disqualifies this creature of folklore from being a mascot. From my perspective, people are attaching immediately to Kraken because it's so much more of an electrifying name that brings up really fantastical imagery with huge potential in branding. 

 

Sockeyes on the other hand are not a universally known and not super captivating even if you have an understanding of what they are. That's an immediate hurdle that the team would face in engaging fans. Besides that, the punny nature of the name grants a sound of antiquity to it that doesn't play well in its favor either. Every time I see it, I can't help but read it in a goofy golden-age broadcaster voice because that's what it sounds like to me. I just think that it's so much more underwhelming than Kraken, especially from a marketing perspective. 

 

5 hours ago, king_mahalo said:

Seriously? You think they would name the team “Kraken” and not run “Release the Kraken!” into the ground? 
 

Fans would be pissed! From what I’ve seen on social media it’s pretty much the only reason the majority of fans like the name Kraken. 

 

If the biggest concern with Kraken is an association with a popular phrase, then I don't think the team is losing too much sleep over it.

[BBTV]

Am I too old and out of touch to have never heard "release the kraken"?

[chcarlson23]

Where did the name idea for the Kraken even come from? Has that just been sitting in the back of people’s minds for any ocean based team? Like people keep trying to bring out the Scandinavian ties to Seattle, but where did the name idea even come from? 

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, BigGameBob said:

what meme does kraken allegedly reference?

 

10 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Am I too old and out of touch to have never heard "release the kraken"?

 

I think it's referring to this, right?

 

 

Old guys like me would probably remember Larry's interpretation:

 

 

Either way, I don't see what the problem is.  It's not like a kraken was invented for either of these movies.  And the waters off Seattle are home to giant squid that may well have inspired the legend, not to mention the Giant Pacific Octopus.  Seattle has as much legitimate claim to the name as any city.

[Chromatic]

Part of me thinks this may have been started by the Seattle NHL group themselves to get feelers out on the name Kraken.

[Ridleylash]

12 hours ago, Gothamite said:

And the waters off Seattle are home to giant squid that may well have inspired the legend, not to mention the Giant Pacific Octopus.  Seattle has as much legitimate claim to the name as any city.

The Kraken in folklore is specifically a creature that dwells of the coast of Norway and Greenland; it is literally only mentioned to be found in the North Atlantic, and is not found in the Pacific from any accounts in Scandinavian folklore.

 

There's no chance giant squids off the coast of Seattle inspired the Kraken myth in any way, shape or form given it's origins have literally nothing to do with the region. Most likely, the kraken is just a result of sailors in Scandinavia seeing particularly large giant squid and spinning a tall tale of it being a gargantuan sea beast that could destroy an entire ship. Kraken myths aren't a thing in Seattle historically, even though the Giant pacific octopus is there.

 

Considering every other professional team in the city has a name tied to Seattle, why is "Kraken" so special that it gets to have nothing but a single connection that even people in the city agree isn't really all that strong?

"Seahawks" refers to osprey, which are found in the region. "Mariners" is just a word for sailors, which are also obviously found in Seattle. "Sounders" of course refers to Puget Sound. "Kraken"...refers to a Scandanavian mythological creature that isn't even found anywhere near the region of Seattle in mythology.

 

And another thing...it seems kind of dumb to name your team the "Kraken", which can cause fans to be called "Krakheads"...when your city is also historically known for having massive drug issues; opens yourself to a lot of jokes that could be avoided with a different branding. It'd be like naming the team the "Seattle Wanderers" in the face of the massive surge in homelessness that Seattle is going through.

[LMU]

Yet there’s no issues with there not being penguins roaming around in western Pennsylvania.

[gosioux76]

19 minutes ago, LMU said:

Yet there’s no issues with there not being penguins roaming around in western Pennsylvania.

You're right. But we also don't know whether there was a potentially superior alternate to Penguins that DID involve a direct tie to the region around it. Here, unfortunately, we do. 

[Ridleylash]

27 minutes ago, LMU said:

Yet there’s no issues with there not being bears roaming Boston or penguins roaming around in western Pennsylvania.

I mean, to be fair, the name is really just the Boston Browns in the former's case, since "bruin" is just Dutch for "brown"; which worked perfectly when the team was...well, brown. Plenty of sports teams from all levels use bears as mascots, and what else would you even have as a mascot with the name "Boston Browns"? 

"Penguins" is also a case wherein that it's more inspired by the arena then by the location; the old Civic Center was nicknamed the "Igloo", thus why the polar-themed "Penguins" name won out. Plus alliteration is always a winning combo in a sports brand.

 

And, probably more importantly, is that both of them were named in a completely different era of sports branding from today, an era where marketing wasn't anywhere near what it is today because the Internet didn't even exist. If Pittsburgh got a franchise now and not in 1967, do you really think that it'd be named the "Penguins"? Local cultural significance is becoming more and more of a factor in branding; stuff like the names "Florence Y'alls" or "Amarillo Sod Poodles" are a great example of that at minor league levels.

 

And, as sioux pointed out, we don't know if there were other names submitted then that people here would've seen as superior to "Penguins" in their case. Here, we do; and it's basically every other name left on the list.

[sparkychewbarky]

3 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

The Kraken in folklore is specifically a creature that dwells of the coast of Norway and Greenland; it is literally only mentioned to be found in the North Atlantic, and is not found in the Pacific from any accounts in Scandinavian folklore.

 

There's no chance giant squids off the coast of Seattle inspired the Kraken myth in any way, shape or form given it's origins have literally nothing to do with the region. Most likely, the kraken is just a result of sailors in Scandinavia seeing particularly large giant squid and spinning a tall tale of it being a gargantuan sea beast that could destroy an entire ship. Kraken myths aren't a thing in Seattle historically, even though the Giant pacific octopus is there.

 

Considering every other professional team in the city has a name tied to Seattle, why is "Kraken" so special that it gets to have nothing but a single connection that even people in the city agree isn't really all that strong?

"Seahawks" refers to osprey, which are found in the region. "Mariners" is just a word for sailors, which are also obviously found in Seattle. "Sounders" of course refers to Puget Sound. "Kraken"...refers to a Scandanavian mythological creature that isn't even found anywhere near the region of Seattle in mythology.

 

And another thing...it seems kind of dumb to name your team the "Kraken", which can cause fans to be called "Krakheads"...when your city is also historically known for having massive drug issues; opens yourself to a lot of jokes that could be avoided with a different branding. It'd be like naming the team the "Seattle Wanderers" in the face of the massive surge in homelessness that Seattle is going through.

 

First of all, I'd be happy with Krāken, Sockeyes, or Evergreens. I think they're the best of the bunch.

I get what you're saying Ridley, but for sake of discussion I'll counter some of your points.

The Krāken name DID originate in Scandinavian folklore. However, the Krāken legend is global. If you read classics like Moby Dick, or 20,000 Leagues..., you'll read of krāken sightings in the Pacific. Google "krāken" and the most recent stories re: krāken are Pac-centric...One of them being the discovery of a prehistoric giant krāken lair. The beast was so big, that it ate ichthyosaurs! Yes, Ichthyosaurs!!! (I just love saying that word). At worst, the Krāken name would just join a VERY LONG list of N.A. sports teams whose name/theme originates from somewhere else in the world (Tigers, Lions, Knights, Penguins, Kings, Trojans, Spartans, Vikings...I could go on & on). It's believed that krāken sightings were actually giant squid sightings (although IceCap would disagree with that). If so, there's a huge giant squid population off the PNW shore. As mentioned, there's a SkyKraken Seattle beer; there's the famous Kraken Bar & Lounge, there are the stories of a huge tentacled beast living near the Tacoma Bridge, the Sound is full of squid and giant octopi, squid-jiggin's a local thing, (didn't know there was a large Scandinavian population...there's that too). 

But, as well as ALL THE ABOVE... that big blue thing on Seattle's horizon, makes a nautical theme very appropriate, and "Krāken" is a great nautical name.

The ownership group stated a desire to create a global brand, and that's where Krāken kicks ass. It's a legendary name with global recognition.

Locally...Yes you're right...it's not as Seattle-centric as some of the other names (Rainiers wins that category), but to say it has zero relevance to the area is a little extreme.

I'd say, considering all of the above, it would have as much or more relevance, as many team names have to their areas.

It could work and be very successful, if done properly.

Again, Krāken, Sockeyes or Evergreens 

[Maroon]

1 hour ago, LMU said:

Yet there’s no issues with there not being penguins roaming around in western Pennsylvania.

 

Or Youngstown, Ohio.

[hawk36]

One thought, Kraken is a safe name for relocation. Sockeyes is really tied to the region whereas the Kraken isn’t tied to anything in the USA. If the Seattle team fails, no rebrand is needed when relocating. 

[Mingjai]

1 hour ago, Ridleylash said:

I mean, to be fair, the name is really just the Boston Browns in the former's case, since "bruin" is just Dutch for "brown"; which worked perfectly when the team was...well, brown. Plenty of sports teams from all levels use bears as mascots, and what else would you even have as a mascot with the name "Boston Browns"?

 

I think you're being a little too coy with your "the name is really just the Boston Browns" argument. The word bruin means "brown" in Dutch but it has meant "brown bear" in English since at least the 15th Century. With a team name that means brown bear in its local language, it's pretty hard to choose a mascot that is anything other than a bear.