MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[Evil G]

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

When said attendance isn't terrible it most certainly is...

18,000+ a game despite their stadium challenges is not terrible by any measure. We're not talking the 7,500 a game the Expos were getting in 2001 which was and remains truly terrible. That was more than enough justification for moving the Expos. 18,000+ in Tampa is not.

18,000 per game for a perennial playoff team with competent management is horrible.

7,500 per game for a franchise that was intentionally sabotaged by Selig and that crook Loria with constant threats of contraction and relocation hanging over them still sucks, but is more understandable

I agree.

About NJ, how about...HELL NO. I'd probably put Portland, SLC, Vegas, Tampa (by that I mean putting them downtown), and St. Petersburg ahead of NJ.

[The_Admiral]

You know what's literally a world away from LA? Mars.

BAHAHAHA

[Gothamite]

Don't understand how Jersey is always in the mix.

It's a mistaken notion that they could tap into the NYC market, which could absolutely support a third team (provided it's branded correctly). They're wrong, but that's the idea.

[dbadefense1990]

You know what's literally a world away from LA?

The Inland Empire. There. Said it.

[njmeadowlanders]

Lifelong Met fan. If the Rays moved here, I would never, ever, ever in a kajillion years abandon the Mets, no matter how pathetic and awful they happen to be.

That said, I'd definitely welcome another team here and have three more chances to see the Mets each summer (being an AL team, it's not like they'd be playing them 18 times).

A team could definitely work here population wise. The one thing the Rays would have going for them that the Devils and Nets didn't is that NYC and NYC Metro is first and foremost a baseball town. Baseball trumps all. Yes, the Giants have Super Bowls, the Knicks are a big draw, blah blah blah. Still trumped by baseball.

But that's just population wise. In reality, even if on the one-in-a-billion chance the Mets and Yankees agreed to this, there wouldn't be enough fans of the Rays. It's been too long since you had three teams here, and now it's so entrenched that it just simply wouldn't work. Just because the Yanks, Dodgers, and Giants once all shared NY doesn't mean that in 2013 it would be a shoe-in.

The Mets wouldn't even let the Yankees temporarily move their AAA team to Newark for one season to renovate their park in Scranton. You think this would happen?

[JayMac]

North Jersey is not a good area for a new team. There are already existing baseball teams in NY that have a strong hold on that area.

[rams80]

I really just think a lot of people outside of the area don't understand how much there is to do around here besides a baseball game or other sporting event. I mean, it is still 80 degrees here during the day...we aren't trapped in our homes from the cold and snow begging for a reason to get out.

Well yeah, you could get run over by a car, you could get struck by lightning, you could go to a chain restaurant, you could get an STD, you could get shot, you could get an STD while being treated for your gunshot wound, you could go to Busch Gardens and get maimed in some way or another. Sure the weather may be fine, but aside from that the Tampa Bay region is apparently a giant hellhole.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

They, and the A's, need to get this whole stadium situation sorted out. Both are viable markets in the right conditions. Barely 20 year old stadiums are getting replaced just because, while these two perennial contenders play in absolute s#itholes (in the A's case, literally)

As for New Orleans- it's a one horse sports town and they've already got 2 horses.

Memphis- the Grizzlies seem to be just getting by. It's a market completely dominated by college sports. Pro will always play the second fiddle.

[ElwoodCuse]

"Somebody has to be last"?

Wow. That is, unfortunately, about the most coherent rationalization of the Rays' pathetic attendance I've ever read. Which means it's long past time to move this team.

When said attendance isn't terrible it most certainly is...

18,000+ a game despite their stadium challenges is not terrible by any measure. We're not talking the 7,500 a game the Expos were getting in 2001 which was and remains truly terrible. That was more than enough justification for moving the Expos. 18,000+ in Tampa is not.

There was no justification for moving the Expos besides "MLB wants them to fail so they are going to do their damndest to make sure of it"

The whole deal with Bud Selig and Jeffrey Loria and John Henry is absolutely disgraceful

[Gothamite]

Don't forget the Illuminati - they were in on it too. And the Vatican. And Colonel Sanders.

[IceCap]

Problem: The team plays in the Tampa Bay area, where everyone's already a fan of other teams, and only the Yankees seem to draw decent crowds.

Solution: Move the team to northern New Jersey where everyone's already a Yankees or Mets fan and where only the Yankees or Mets will draw decent crowds.

That's NHL levels of stupid.

[Cosmic]

You know what's literally a world away from LA?

The Mercury Mets Rays?

[BBTV]

Problem: The team plays in the Tampa Bay area, where everyone's already a fan of other teams, and only the Yankees seem to draw decent crowds.

Solution: Move the team to northern New Jersey where everyone's already a Yankees or Mets fan and where only the Yankees or Mets will draw decent crowds.

That's NHL levels of stupid.

I think a situation like this is more likely to work in the northeast as opposed to retiree land in the south. I just don't think there's a convenient / centralized / safe place for them to play.

[C's]

Outside of maybe Montreal there aren't any good new places to put teams that have a chance to succeed and not just be revenue sharing sponges. If you're gonna do a 3rd NY team at least put them in the city, not in :censored:ing Jersey.

Really, contract both existing Florida franchises and put expansion teams in their place. The Marlins are poison and exist only so that toad running the operation can cash revenue sharing checks from MLB (and they're basically an expansion team already), and the Rays are locked into Tropicana/Hell for god knows how long. Wipe out the two unfixable problems you have (Loria and his unsalvagable brand, and Tropicana) and start anew in Miami and Orlando this time. Miami so you don't leave that ballpark vacant, which would blow any future stadium aspirations for other teams sky high, Orlando because Tampa's not a good sports market, but the Rays' ratings from the area as a whole were solid I believe. Not bad enough to justify completely ditching them anyway.

[Needschat]

A move to the New York City area would be a disaster, but not as bad as one they have now in St. Petersburg. Montreal would be a good spot for them to land, with the Hampton Roads (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Hampton/Williamsburg) area of Virginia as a second possible location. Portland OR is a no good, the Timbers have the stadium.

[BBTV]

I don't understand why Montreal keeps being mentioned. Not just because it failed once (because as many have stated there were a Lot of factors in play there) but if it never had a ML team, NOBODY would me mentioning it now. It's just nostalgia and love if the old elb logo, IMO.

I vote for Portland, despite its small size, only because I'd like to see the beavers name in the major leagues.

[IceCap]

I don't understand why Montreal keeps being mentioned. Not just because it failed once (because as many have stated there were a Lot of factors in play there) but if it never had a ML team, NOBODY would me mentioning it now. It's just nostalgia and love if the old elb logo, IMO.

You said the same thing about Winnipeg and the NHL, and that turned out to be a cash cow when the league (begrudgingly) went back.

The question about Montreal being in the discussion if the Expos had never existed is irrelevant and counter-factual. They did exist, and that's going to be a factor.

That being said, it's not happening. The Anglo fanbase that supported the team is a shadow of its former self and there's no will or money available to build a new park.

[BBTV]

I did say that about Winnipeg, and so far have been wrong. I think it's fair to say that hockey and mlb are very different when it comes to revenue sources, and hockey in Canada... anywhere in Canada, is just different. They also had a top notch ownership group doing everything possible to make it work.

The only way a former team is relevant would be like a Cleveland Browns situation, where nobody doubts it would work, but political and ownership factors resulted in the team going. There were certainly those factors here too, but was Montreal ever really a success? Weren't they routinely near the bottom in revenue even before the loria / mlb fiasco? Not even taking in to account your reasons for it not working there (which I read a while ago and make a lot of sense) I think it's a non starter, unless a "true north"-esque group comes out of nowhere.

[McCall]

Outside of maybe Montreal there aren't any good new places to put teams that have a chance to succeed and not just be revenue sharing sponges. If you're gonna do a 3rd NY team at least put them in the city, not in :censored:ing Jersey.

Really, contract both existing Florida franchises and put expansion teams in their place. The Marlins are poison and exist only so that toad running the operation can cash revenue sharing checks from MLB (and they're basically an expansion team already), and the Rays are locked into Tropicana/Hell for god knows how long. Wipe out the two unfixable problems you have (Loria and his unsalvagable brand, and Tropicana) and start anew in Miami and Orlando this time. Miami so you don't leave that ballpark vacant, which would blow any future stadium aspirations for other teams sky high, Orlando because Tampa's not a good sports market, but the Rays' ratings from the area as a whole were solid I believe. Not bad enough to justify completely ditching them anyway.

Contract teams only to immediately replace them with teams in the exact or nearby locations.

... I'll give you a minute to realize the absurdity of this idea.

Tampa Bay's ONLY problems are fanbase and stadium issues. Everything about the organization is very well ran and contracting them makes no sense. Why would you want to take the team out of the hands of people who are making it a success? Why would you need to contract a team to relocate it when you can just relocate it?

The Marlins are poorly ran, but contracting them too is unnecessary if you're going to place one right back there. You have an established franchise. You work on either getting present ownership to improve the state of the franchise or work on getting them replaced, which is difficult, but honestly contraction is even more so.

Seems you have no clue as to how sports franchises and leagues work.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Sounds like MLB should buy out Loria, dump the Marlins, and move the Rays organization to Miami. We all win that way, yeah?