When Sports Aesthetic Criticism Goes Bad

[Old School Fool]

3rd, why does writing it down make it worse? It's a phrase used increasingly TV shows

"Gay" as a synonym for "lame" is actually on the decline.

http://hahgay.com/

[OnWis97]

Whining about political correctness is a growing alternative to critical thought.

[GFB]

[charger77]

Now I know I've said some things about my views of gay on here, and they weren't that nice, but I'm going to be respectful about this. The problem with this whole deal, is that those kids were allowed into that game with that poster. Maybe they rolled it up, so no one would see the inside. Honestly, I think that the school needs to start looking at what students have on their signs before games. This could help stop any future problems for a situation like this.

Similar to what the WWE does when you enter a wrestling event like RAW or SMACKDOWN.

Not exactly. WWE is free to remove signs like that as a private business but if the school started doing it, they might run into trouble with the First Amendment. As a public school, they are an extension of the federal government and freedom of speech might come into play. However, that's not likely since students do sacrifice portions of their Constitutional rights when participating in school functions. It's just not the same situation as a private business taking away signs at a live event.

Public schools are a function of state and local government, not the federal government.

Regardless, most school codes of conduct forbid hate speech, speech that is hostile to a particular person or group, or "offensive"/derogatory and can punish accordingly without violating free speech laws.

This school should throw the book at the offenders in question and set the tone early.

[Guest]

This just embarrasses me. I'm embarrassed to be a high schooler, I'm embarrassed to be an Alabamian, and especially embarrassed to be a high school student in Alabama. When someone around here says "that's gay" it usually is just anything that isn't what a man's man would do. I'm in show choir and I can't tell you how many times I've heard "that's gay, you're a fag". A man doesn't sing. A man doesn't draw, paint whatever. And a man definitely doesn't wear pink or purple. Me personally, I love the creative arts, I love football, and I love the color purple in sports. It's really stupid that these students would do this, but on another level the guys holding it didn't write the sign, that's a females handwriting and it was probably a cheerleader. So all in all, as far as we've come since the days of the Civil Rights Movement, there are still plenty of stupid ignorant people. And to be fair, I really doubt that the students themselves, formulated this opinion. It's something that has been slowly fed to them by their redneck parents, and honestly the punishment won't do anything. They don't realize that their actions are wrong, which is the same thought process as the bullies that drive gay teens to kill themselves. So in conclusion, it's something that has to change in the culture and the fabric of the South and other areas before thing will change

[IceCap]

You don't see a problem with using the term "gay" as a synonym for "lame" or "stupid"?

All 9erssteve did was try to argue semantics, that the homosexual community doesn't "own" the word gay. Which is a pretty ridiculous statement. Yes, the word started off with an unrelated meaning, but in the year 2012 it's recognized to mean "homosexual" above any other meaning it might have. To argue otherwise is either an exercise in naivety or hair splitting to try and fight the imaginary "PC Police."

The term is recognized as a word to describe homosexuality first and foremost in our society. I know it, you know it, 9erssteve knows it, and those idiots in Alabama know it. Using the term "gay" in the manner that they did was meant to use the term in a derogatory manner. Which qualifies as bigotry, whether you like it or not.

As for the "well were any gay people actually offended?" argument, well let me ask him (and you too Morgo since you seem to be game) this. Say a gay member of our boards says he was offended. Or say a gay person or a gay civil rights group announces that they found the banner offensive, will you drop your ridiculous opposition to condemning bigoted behaviour?

That aside though, we shouldn't have to wait for "confirmation" to know if something's offensive. You can't call me a kike and then claim you didn't know it was wrong until AFTER I tell you I'm offended. There are some words and phrases and connotations that we all know are bigoted. Toleration of bigotry by some shouldn't give those terms and people who use them a free pass.

No I don't see a problem with it, not even remotely.

So you don't see the problem with using a word used to describe a minority in a derogatory manner? Come on now.

If every person in High School was expelled for using the word "Gay" as a pejorative there would be nobody left.

Please show me where I said the students in question should be expelled. I said disciplined. Which isn't that radical an idea actually. I remember kids getting in trouble for using gay as a pejorative back when I was in high school, and I graduated in 2006. No one was expelled over it, but it was made clear that using a name of a minority in a derogatory manner was not acceptable. That's all I'm saying should be done here. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't, but if you don't punish it then you're actively encouraging it.

The homosexual community doesn't own the word gay and if people want to use it as a synonym for "Lame," or "Stupid" that is their right. I don't recall anyone getting their panties in a twist when the homosexual community adapted it and bastardized it's original meaning,

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong on this.

The term "gay" in today's world primarily means "homosexual." Bringing up the fact that the homosexual community co-opted the word is tantamount to crying over spilt milk. It happened. It's what the word means now to the vast majority of the population in our society. The thing is the term itself is not a derogatory term. It's not like the n-word, chink, kike, or spic. It's just a name used to describe a minority. Yet using it in a derogatory manner is insulting. It's like saying "I Jewed that guy" if you got a great deal on a used car. It's taking a simple name and turning it into a bigoted term.

In a free society,

That it is. You're free to call something you find lame "gay" and the rest of us are free to tell you you're being offensive. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism and in our country freedom of speech actually has a caveat when it comes to hate speech.

either all words are acceptable or none are

It would be nice if the world worked in such simple black and white terms, but it doesn't. So deal with it.

and I'm getting sick and tired of this P.C. bull dictating the way they are used. Upon reading this thread it's clear the "PC Police" is far from imaginary.

You know what I'm sick of? People blaming the "PC Police" for not being able to say offensive crap like they used to be able to.

It's not a matter of curtailing freedom of speech or being over-sensitive. It's about simple human decency and respect for your fellow man.

[RedSox44]

Yeah, I think it's impossible to even justify that as criticism. I was stupid in HS, but not that stupid.

I am stupid, but I'm not that stupid.

Mostly because, you know, I'm part of the LGBT community.

[Varsity Blue]

Whining about political correctness is a growing alternative to critical thought.

Actually THAT is political correctness.

So you can call someone a "backward ass redneck" and that's okay but you can't call something gay or ghey? Those are the rules?

Another rule would be to enforce political correctness and then claim that you are not being politically correct. George Orwell/Eric Blair.

[IceCap]

Whining about political correctness is a growing alternative to critical thought.

Actually THAT is political correctness.

So you can call someone a "backward ass redneck" and that's okay but you can't call something gay or ghey? Those are the rules?

Another rule would be to enforce political correctness and then claim that you are not being politically correct.

Actually, ideally, neither would be used.

[Kevin W.]

Public schools are a function of state and local government, not the federal government.

Yes, but they also receive federal funding so they are an indirect extension of the federal government. Regardless, they are a government entity, but as both you and I stated, they do have some leeway when it comes to restricting what would otherwise be protected speech.

[tajmccall]

This thread is why we can't have nice things.

[Kevin W.]

Whining about political correctness is a growing alternative to critical thought.

Actually THAT is political correctness.

So you can call someone a "backward ass redneck" and that's okay but you can't call something gay or ghey? Those are the rules?

Another rule would be to enforce political correctness and then claim that you are not being politically correct.

Actually, ideally, neither would be used.

Yeah, it'd be nice if there could be a political discussion about any issue these days that doesn't involve people throwing around unnecessary pejoratives. I mean, we all know that the Republicans are a bunch of jackbooted Nazi fascist thugs and we all know the Democrats are a bunch of pinko Commie tree-hugging hippies but we don't need to say it!

[Lights Out]

If every person in High School was expelled for using the word "Gay" as a pejorative there would be nobody left.

I agree that expulsion for using the word "gay" as a pejorative is an extreme punishment, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do it. I mean, I don't see what's unfair or unreasonable about just saying "that's so lame" or "that sucks" instead.

[crashcarson15]

Public schools are a function of state and local government, not the federal government.

Yes, but they also receive federal funding so they are an indirect extension of the federal government. Regardless, they are a government entity, but as both you and I stated, they do have some leeway when it comes to restricting what would otherwise be protected speech.

TINKER! TINKER! TINKER! TINKER!

[Morgan33]

So you don't see the problem with using a word used to describe a minority in a derogatory manner? Come on now.

First off, the word gay is not a slur, it is discriptive just like the word "Black" describes someone with dark skin. If it was used to describe any PERSON in a derogatory way, I would have a problem with it. But since it was used to describe an INANIMATE OBJECT, I find the uproar on these boards bordering twilight zone levels of ridiculousness.

Please show me where I said the students in question should be expelled. I said disciplined. Which isn't that radical an idea actually. I remember kids getting in trouble for using gay as a pejorative back when I was in high school, and I graduated in 2006. No one was expelled over it, but it was made clear that using a name of a minority in a derogatory manner was not acceptable. That's all I'm saying should be done here. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't, but if you don't punish it then you're actively encouraging it.

I used that as an extreme example to illustrate my point that plenty of High School students use the word in that manner. I never said you were calling for their expulsion but really, what kind of police state school did you go to? Kids got in trouble for describing inanimate objects as gay? Did you guys have uniformed "Word Police" roaming the halls?

The term "gay" in today's world primarily means "homosexual." Bringing up the fact that the homosexual community co-opted the word is tantamount to crying over spilt milk. It happened. It's what the word means now to the vast majority of the population in our society. The thing is the term itself is not a derogatory term. It's not like the n-word, chink, kike, or spic. It's just a name used to describe a minority. Yet using it in a derogatory manner is insulting. It's like saying "I Jewed that guy" if you got a great deal on a used car. It's taking a simple name and turning it into a bigoted term.

So what about old timers who still use the word "Gay" in it's original context? Should they be punished too. Im glad you recognize that "Gay" is not a slur but your example is completely different to what these students did because it concerns a PERSON rather than an INANIMATE OBJECT. Ongoing theme here...

That it is. You're free to call something you find lame "gay" and the rest of us are free to tell you you're being offensive. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism and in our country freedom of speech actually has a caveat when it comes to hate speech.

Just like I'm free to call this thread ridiculous and your call for these students to be made an example of far more offensive than what they did. That's the beauty of free speech, deal with it.

It would be nice if the world worked in such simple black and white terms, but it doesn't. So deal with it.

It's a slippery slope. If you are forbidden to refer to inamimate objects as "Gay," it sets a precedent for the banning of other words. Maybe I should be forbidden from calling the Pittsburgh Penguins uniforms Black...

You know what I'm sick of? People blaming the "PC Police" for not being able to say offensive crap like they used to be able to. It's not a matter of curtailing freedom of speech or being over-sensitive. It's about simple human decency and respect for your fellow man.

You know what I'm really sick of? Phoney Liberals like you in your ivory tower trying to dictate the way people use the English Language.

One more thing... Purple is a colour often used by the gay community to represent itself so how is referring to a purple uniform as "gay" offensive? Checkmate!

[Chawls]

Purple is also the primary color of the Minnesota Vikings and its fandom. So does that make their uniforms Viking-like?

No. It doesn't. Case in point, purple and the LGBT community can be mutually exclusive. Yahtzee!

[IceCap]

Please show me where I said the students in question should be expelled. I said disciplined. Which isn't that radical an idea actually. I remember kids getting in trouble for using gay as a pejorative back when I was in high school, and I graduated in 2006. No one was expelled over it, but it was made clear that using a name of a minority in a derogatory manner was not acceptable. That's all I'm saying should be done here. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't, but if you don't punish it then you're actively encouraging it.

I used that as an extreme example to illustrate my point that plenty of High School students use the word in that manner. I never said you were calling for their expulsion but really, what kind of police state school did you go to? Kids got in trouble for describing inanimate objects as gay? Did you guys have uniformed "Word Police" roaming the halls?

That's rich, that in your mind "making sure students don't use offensive language" must equate to "police state school" and "uniformed word police."

No, rest assured it wasn't the case. It was just that if a teacher caught a student using the word "gay" in a derogatory manner they were informed that using that word in that manner wasn't acceptable.

The term "gay" in today's world primarily means "homosexual." Bringing up the fact that the homosexual community co-opted the word is tantamount to crying over spilt milk. It happened. It's what the word means now to the vast majority of the population in our society. The thing is the term itself is not a derogatory term. It's not like the n-word, chink, kike, or spic. It's just a name used to describe a minority. Yet using it in a derogatory manner is insulting. It's like saying "I Jewed that guy" if you got a great deal on a used car. It's taking a simple name and turning it into a bigoted term.

So what about old timers who still use the word "Gay" in it's original context?

The people in question were high schoolers.

You know what I'm sick of? People blaming the "PC Police" for not being able to say offensive crap like they used to be able to. It's not a matter of curtailing freedom of speech or being over-sensitive. It's about simple human decency and respect for your fellow man.

You know what I'm really sick of? Phoney Liberals like you in your ivory tower trying to dictate the way people use the English Language.

This is a grab bag of talking point phrases if I've ever seen one.

Phony Liberal? What does that even mean? I've identified as a liberal for most of my life. What exactly are you trying to say? That I'm really a conservative in disguise? Or that despite identifying with liberal political ideology I'm somehow not one? I'm curious. Please explain.

As for the "ivory tower" part, wow. It's a very sad day when education is looked down upon.

No one's trying to tell you how to use the English language, believe me. All we're saying is that, out of respect for your fellow man, don't use terms, words, or phrases that are offensive. It's not about controlling language it's about not being a hateful bigot. I'm truly sorry if you feel your freedom to call a black person a "n***er" or something you find lame "gay" is worth keeping over not disrespecting your fellow man.

One more thing... Purple is a colour often used by the gay community to represent itself so how is referring to a purple uniform as "gay" offensive? Checkmate!

Oh yes, you got me there

The part you seem hung up about is that the target of the attack, the uniforms, are inanimate objects. What you fail to see is that the attack itself is the problem, the target is inconsequential. They felt the colour purple was lame, stupid. So they called them "gay." While the term itself is primarily just a descriptive word for homosexuals, when used by someone to describe something they find stupid it becomes a derogatory phrase.

The students didn't like the uniforms, so they called them "gay." When that happened gay went from being a simple descriptive to being a derogatory slur. Much the like the example I used previously, Jew. It's just the name for a group of people on its own, but when used in the sentence "I Jewed that guy" it becomes a slur.

I'm not trying to tell you how the English language should work, by the way, simply explaining how it worked. Context matters. The kids in question didn't think "oh those uniforms are purple, and the homosexual community identifies with purple, therefore we'll simply honour this fact and call the uniforms gay!"

They thought "that uniform is purple, purple is lame, it's so gay!"

See? Context.

[guest23]

Please show me where I said the students in question should be expelled. I said disciplined. Which isn't that radical an idea actually. I remember kids getting in trouble for using gay as a pejorative back when I was in high school, and I graduated in 2006. No one was expelled over it, but it was made clear that using a name of a minority in a derogatory manner was not acceptable. That's all I'm saying should be done here. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't, but if you don't punish it then you're actively encouraging it.

I used that as an extreme example to illustrate my point that plenty of High School students use the word in that manner. I never said you were calling for their expulsion but really, what kind of police state school did you go to? Kids got in trouble for describing inanimate objects as gay? Did you guys have uniformed "Word Police" roaming the halls?

That's rich, that in your mind "making sure students don't use offensive language" must equate to "police state school" and "uniformed word police."

No, rest assured it wasn't the case. It was just that if a teacher caught a student using the word "gay" in a derogatory manner they were informed that using that word in that manner wasn't acceptable.

The term "gay" in today's world primarily means "homosexual." Bringing up the fact that the homosexual community co-opted the word is tantamount to crying over spilt milk. It happened. It's what the word means now to the vast majority of the population in our society. The thing is the term itself is not a derogatory term. It's not like the n-word, chink, kike, or spic. It's just a name used to describe a minority. Yet using it in a derogatory manner is insulting. It's like saying "I Jewed that guy" if you got a great deal on a used car. It's taking a simple name and turning it into a bigoted term.

So what about old timers who still use the word "Gay" in it's original context?

The people in question were high schoolers.

You know what I'm sick of? People blaming the "PC Police" for not being able to say offensive crap like they used to be able to. It's not a matter of curtailing freedom of speech or being over-sensitive. It's about simple human decency and respect for your fellow man.

You know what I'm really sick of? Phoney Liberals like you in your ivory tower trying to dictate the way people use the English Language.

This is a grab bag of talking point phrases if I've ever seen one.

Phony Liberal? What does that even mean? I've identified as a liberal for most of my life. What exactly are you trying to say? That I'm really a conservative in disguise? Or that despite identifying with liberal political ideology I'm somehow not one? I'm curious. Please explain.

As for the "ivory tower" part, wow. It's a very sad day when education is looked down upon.

No one's trying to tell you how to use the English language, believe me. All we're saying is that, out of respect for your fellow man, don't use terms, words, or phrases that are offensive. It's not about controlling language it's about not being a hateful bigot. I'm truly sorry if you feel your freedom to call a black person a "n***er" or something you find lame "gay" is worth keeping over not disrespecting your fellow man.

One more thing... Purple is a colour often used by the gay community to represent itself so how is referring to a purple uniform as "gay" offensive? Checkmate!

Oh yes, you got me there

The part you seem hung up about is that the target of the attack, the uniforms, are inanimate objects. What you fail to see is that the attack itself is the problem, the target is inconsequential. They felt the colour purple was lame, stupid. So they called them "gay." While the term itself is primarily just a descriptive word for homosexuals, when used by someone to describe something they find stupid it becomes a derogatory phrase.

The students didn't like the uniforms, so they called them "gay." When that happened gay went from being a simple descriptive to being a derogatory slur. Much the like the example I used previously, Jew. It's just the name for a group of people on its own, but when used in the sentence "I Jewed that guy" it becomes a slur.

I'm not trying to tell you how the English language should work, by the way, simply explaining how it worked. Context matters. The kids in question didn't think "oh those uniforms are purple, and the homosexual community identifies with purple, therefore we'll simply honour this fact and call the uniforms gay!"

They thought "that uniform is purple, purple is lame, it's so gay!"

See? Context.

the context is understood but that doesn't change the fact that these kids are complete idiots for pulling the stunt. the gay=lame is intended to to be used in a negative and oftentimes insulting fashion especially to emasculate males (e.g. you're not a tough guy, therefore you are gay, implying that you are less than a man)

cheap insults, especially calling something are completely low-brow absolutely the lowest form of humor. if you want to have a good laugh at a rival get creative and have a go at it but what they did was just pathetic and embarrassing.

[IceCap]

Please show me where I said the students in question should be expelled. I said disciplined. Which isn't that radical an idea actually. I remember kids getting in trouble for using gay as a pejorative back when I was in high school, and I graduated in 2006. No one was expelled over it, but it was made clear that using a name of a minority in a derogatory manner was not acceptable. That's all I'm saying should be done here. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't, but if you don't punish it then you're actively encouraging it.

I used that as an extreme example to illustrate my point that plenty of High School students use the word in that manner. I never said you were calling for their expulsion but really, what kind of police state school did you go to? Kids got in trouble for describing inanimate objects as gay? Did you guys have uniformed "Word Police" roaming the halls?

That's rich, that in your mind "making sure students don't use offensive language" must equate to "police state school" and "uniformed word police."

No, rest assured it wasn't the case. It was just that if a teacher caught a student using the word "gay" in a derogatory manner they were informed that using that word in that manner wasn't acceptable.

The term "gay" in today's world primarily means "homosexual." Bringing up the fact that the homosexual community co-opted the word is tantamount to crying over spilt milk. It happened. It's what the word means now to the vast majority of the population in our society. The thing is the term itself is not a derogatory term. It's not like the n-word, chink, kike, or spic. It's just a name used to describe a minority. Yet using it in a derogatory manner is insulting. It's like saying "I Jewed that guy" if you got a great deal on a used car. It's taking a simple name and turning it into a bigoted term.

So what about old timers who still use the word "Gay" in it's original context?

The people in question were high schoolers.

You know what I'm sick of? People blaming the "PC Police" for not being able to say offensive crap like they used to be able to. It's not a matter of curtailing freedom of speech or being over-sensitive. It's about simple human decency and respect for your fellow man.

You know what I'm really sick of? Phoney Liberals like you in your ivory tower trying to dictate the way people use the English Language.

This is a grab bag of talking point phrases if I've ever seen one.

Phony Liberal? What does that even mean? I've identified as a liberal for most of my life. What exactly are you trying to say? That I'm really a conservative in disguise? Or that despite identifying with liberal political ideology I'm somehow not one? I'm curious. Please explain.

As for the "ivory tower" part, wow. It's a very sad day when education is looked down upon.

No one's trying to tell you how to use the English language, believe me. All we're saying is that, out of respect for your fellow man, don't use terms, words, or phrases that are offensive. It's not about controlling language it's about not being a hateful bigot. I'm truly sorry if you feel your freedom to call a black person a "n***er" or something you find lame "gay" is worth keeping over not disrespecting your fellow man.

One more thing... Purple is a colour often used by the gay community to represent itself so how is referring to a purple uniform as "gay" offensive? Checkmate!

Oh yes, you got me there

The part you seem hung up about is that the target of the attack, the uniforms, are inanimate objects. What you fail to see is that the attack itself is the problem, the target is inconsequential. They felt the colour purple was lame, stupid. So they called them "gay." While the term itself is primarily just a descriptive word for homosexuals, when used by someone to describe something they find stupid it becomes a derogatory phrase.

The students didn't like the uniforms, so they called them "gay." When that happened gay went from being a simple descriptive to being a derogatory slur. Much the like the example I used previously, Jew. It's just the name for a group of people on its own, but when used in the sentence "I Jewed that guy" it becomes a slur.

I'm not trying to tell you how the English language should work, by the way, simply explaining how it worked. Context matters. The kids in question didn't think "oh those uniforms are purple, and the homosexual community identifies with purple, therefore we'll simply honour this fact and call the uniforms gay!"

They thought "that uniform is purple, purple is lame, it's so gay!"

See? Context.

the context is understood but that doesn't change the fact that these kids are complete idiots for pulling the stunt. the gay=lame is intended to to be used in a negative and oftentimes insulting fashion especially to emasculate males (e.g. you're not a tough guy, therefore you are gay, implying that you are less than a man)

Exactly. That was my point.

cheap insults, especially calling something are completely low-brow absolutely the lowest form of humor. if you want to have a good laugh at a rival get creative and have a go at it but what they did was just pathetic and embarrassing.

Agreed.

[oldschoolvikings]

One more thing... Purple is a colour often used by the gay community to represent itself so how is referring to a purple uniform as "gay" offensive? Checkmate!

So... you don't really play chess, do you?