.

[mbannon92]

I just want to say I really enjoyed reading through this thread, and freakin' congratulations on living the dream!!! Can't wait to see what Nike has in store for 2013. And any terrible designs will be solely blamed on you

[rtrich11]

As we all know here, unsolicited designs are not welcomed by teams for a myriad of reasons. I'm sure you have a collection of concepts you've done. Have you been able to pull anything out of your back pocket, so to speak, and present it via Nike? Actually, I'm sure this isn't easy to do, either.

But my "more serious" question has to do with the "leotard look" prevalent in the NFL. You know, dark pants, dark socks. Do the players know they look like ballerinas in numbered shirts? This became common under the Reebok regime, but doesn't seem to have changed at all.

[pcgd]

Buc: I'm not at ignoring you I just really shouldn't say anything too specific. But most designers working for decent companies make a comfortable living once established.

[Puckguy14]

Gordie, as a fellow longtime CCSLCer, congrats on a dream gig I think many of us wish we could have. As for questions to ask...

- How tough is it to avoid conceptual designs seen outside the Nike office to avoid any chance of plagiarism?

- Also, as a logo/uni dork, is there any chance that fonts used on past apparel or uniforms are available to the public? Or are they kept to Nike's vault?

[andrewharrington]

People don't understand the process but criticize the work as if they do. In my opinion, it's not possible to properly critique something without knowing the circumstances under which the work was designed and produced.

Nonsense. We don't have to know anything about cameras to love or hate a movie. A person can barely be able to type, but their impression of a novel is every bit as valuable as yours or mine.

Now, maybe people aren't as able to figure out what went wrong (or right) with designs not knowing the process, but intimate knowledge of the sausage factory has never been a prerequisite for a critique. I'm willing to bet that most people who come to one of my plays have very little actual understanding of story structure, can't tell a fresnel from a foghorn and don't know why actors won't whistle in a theatre, but that doesn't make their reaction to my show any less real or valuable.

Does the product move you? Does it inspire you? Or does it feel flat, stale or derivative? That core emotional reaction doesn't require a degree.

This is true, but you do have to know the process behind the design if you want to assign blame for why something went wrong. Anyone can say "I don't like the striping choice on the jerseys for Team X" and their opinion is worth the same as anyone else's. But it would be unfair to say "Company Y did a horrible job designing the striping on Team X's jerseys" without knowing what went on behind the scenes in the designing of the jerseys. It seems like people here blame the company more often than not when they don't like a design element, but it could have been the team or league that required the company do it.

This is what I'm getting at. There's definitely a difference between critiquing something and properly critiquing something. Critiquing art or a consumer product is a bit different in my opinion than critiquing something that's designed for a third party, like a team, for example. To give it a proper evaluation, I do think one needs to understand and respect the process to a degree, the information that may have been briefed and the decisions that might have been made along the way. I totally understand Gothamite's point here, but we all know there's a ton of bogus critique floating around, and not just here. It's an epidemic spurred by the accessibility and anonymity of the internet.

I look at it like this: I can critique a vintner's wine because that is his art. He made it the way they he wanted it and that was that. In order to give the designer of his packaging a fair shake, however, I feel like I need to understand the vintner, what he briefed, how he shaped the process and how the designer responded, adjusted and compromised in order to create what he thought was the best balance between the two sides.

Here's a question that really ain't got nothing to do with all this wealth of great inside info being discussed here—and this is just so I know whether or not it's even worth hanging onto what's left of this half-a**ed pipe dream of mine in regards to building and running my own freelance imprint with the hope of moving on up in the game....

...Design is not something one does for money; it's done for love and passion of the craft. That said, how's the pay at y'alls levels? (BG, AH, CD, Pat Cummings if he/you happen to see this, Baze...whoever else is connected on the inside.) Is itthe anywhere nearelse decent? (Upwards of 32K annual is about what I consider decent.) I ask because a brotha got bills and a bunch of other bulls*#t to deal with.

Thanks in advance... ~Buc

If you're talented, you can get the job you want. If you get the job you want, you can live the dream comfortably. Same goes for freelance. All you need are the talent and the clients.

[_RH_]

what exactly do you mean re: pants stripes and belts in the NFL?

Maybe "belts" is the wrong word. I mean the little piece at the waist that obscures part of the top of stripes (like here on Cassel)

[Kevin W.]

Ok, let me try a variation of my previous question.

Of the college designs Nike has put out in the last 4-5 years, which do you like the best? Which do you dislike the most?

[AndrewPF]

Do you take offense if you see a design that you worked on get skewered on these boards?

[Gfonk04]

Chawls: For getting a logo from me, I'd say start with an email or PM and tell me ... your budget

Is there a tiered pay structure? $50 for a crayon drawing, $5000 for a vector? I think that would be awesome.

You mentioned some of the NFL's uniform rules that you have to abide by when designing. Are those proprietary or confidential in some way or can you clue us in? I think some understanding of the guidelines used by pro sports leagues could really inform the Concepts Section. It might lead (some) people to try to make their designs more realistic by conforming to actual league rules. Generalities are fine if you can't be too specific.

I love the base layer of the Navy uniform and the inclusion of the signal flags on the helmet. Super secret just between you and me, a year ago or so, I showed a concept I created to some people in the USNA Athletic Department, the concept included signal flags, so I'm going to claim credit for those and the rattlesnake flag on the helmet too. It's definitely a different look for the Mids.

I think the inclusion of the tactical map on the USMA uniforms is a very interesting touch. I would say that I liked it if it didn't mean paying Army a compliment. So I'll just say that the designer of the uniform did a great job, even though it was for the wrong team.

You may have mentioned it before, but what program do you guys use for creating your concepts? Something commercially available, or some in-house design software? Inkscape, probably?

One more question, how much lobbying does a company do when its creative team strongly believes in including or not including an element and there is some pushback from the client? Is there generally a compromise reached or do the creative guys usually give the client what they want?

Thanks for answering all of these questions. I'd be thrilled if the other pros jumped in on this too.

[kc51design]

The most enjoyable thread so far. Than you for inside info. This board went long way from the beginning. Thrilled to be part of it. Great community.

[Kiltman]

Congrats on what sounds like an amazing job

What has your experience with NFL teams been like thus far? Without getting into specifics of course.

And I was wondering this as well.....

What path did you take to become employed by Nike? What is your educational background, major, etc.? If that's too personal, no biggie, just curious.

And if you could tell me you got the Eagles to Ditch horrendous Midnight Green I might name my first born after you

[9erssteve]

_{Ok here's my question. Team X want's a rebrand. They've given the NFL notice that they want to change everything, uniform, logo the works. What order would that be approached in, and how much say would Nike have if any in the logo? Or do Nike have to wait for the Logo's and all other graphics to be produced (by NFL Properties or an agency of the teams choosing, I'm assuming) before starting work on uniform? I guess what I'm trying to get at is, do Nike just produce the apparel and graphics for merchandise or do they have input/control over a teams entire identity package?}

_{Thanks in advance for any info and congrats on the job. I look forward to you being able to (hopefully) reveal what changes in 2013 you had a part in.}

_9erssteve

[BBTV]

People don't understand the process but criticize the work as if they do. In my opinion, it's not possible to properly critique something without knowing the circumstances under which the work was designed and produced.

Nonsense. We don't have to know anything about cameras to love or hate a movie. A person can barely be able to type, but their impression of a novel is every bit as valuable as yours or mine.

Now, maybe people aren't as able to figure out what went wrong (or right) with designs not knowing the process, but intimate knowledge of the sausage factory has never been a prerequisite for a critique. I'm willing to bet that most people who come to one of my plays have very little actual understanding of story structure, can't tell a fresnel from a foghorn and don't know why actors won't whistle in a theatre, but that doesn't make their reaction to my show any less real or valuable.

Does the product move you? Does it inspire you? Or does it feel flat, stale or derivative? That core emotional reaction doesn't require a degree.

This is true, but you do have to know the process behind the design if you want to assign blame for why something went wrong. Anyone can say "I don't like the striping choice on the jerseys for Team X" and their opinion is worth the same as anyone else's. But it would be unfair to say "Company Y did a horrible job designing the striping on Team X's jerseys" without knowing what went on behind the scenes in the designing of the jerseys. It seems like people here blame the company more often than not when they don't like a design element, but it could have been the team or league that required the company do it.

There's a difference between critiquing a design and a designer. I would agree that it's not fair to critique a designer without knowing the restrictions that were placed on them, the direction the client wanted to go on, etc. But the end product can certainly be critiqued fairly by anyone who's eyes see it. Feeling that a logo is flawed doesn't necessarily have to mean that the designer is flawed, or that the client's vision was flawed, it simply means that the actual final logo is flawed.

[JPDesign]

It's the difference in critiques between saying, "I don't think those shoulder stripes were the best choice for this uniform." versus, "There goes Adidas again, ruining another uniform. What can't they stop being lazy?"

[Gothamite]

Exactly. You two said it better than I.

[gordie_delini]

Woof, lots of questions! Let me start with BigDMO - meant to answer earlier but missed it, sorry!

BigDMO/Kiltman: I attended the University of Oregon and got a degree in Digital Art. After graduating, I worked at FedEx Kinkos for a short time before landing my first design job at a small advertising agency in Missoula, MT. After that, I was hired by Old Hat Creative in Norman, OK as a print designer. It was working with Old Hat that I got to work on so many different types of sports projects that was pretty key for me getting in the door at Nike. I left Old Hat in March of 2011 because I was homesick primarily, and moved back to Oregon. I freelanced for a bit and then got a job working at a company called HereNow Creative Network, which does retail production work for Nike. After being let go there, I registered with a staffing agency that got me the gig at Nike, and that's how I got it there.

rtrich11: Actually, yes I have pulled a couple of concepts I've done out of my pocket for Nike because they were relevant to what was going on at the time. My work on the Wyoming rebrand I did was a big part of me landing the job, especially my photoshop work. But I also showed off a Navy rivalry concept I did last year to the designer who did this year's Navy uniform, since both were based around the dress white uniform. Not much influence from my design to be honest. As for the so-called "leotard" look, that's not really anything we have control over, that's up to the team and equipment manager for what the team wears on any given day.

Puckguy14: It's actually really easy to avoid seeing concepts. It's simply a matter of staying off forums like this and ignoring Paul Lukas' column. No fonts available, sorry m'friend. That stuff is kept under virtual lock and key. Not even everyone at Nike has access to those.

_RH_: Ahh, you're talking about the actual pant hemline there. I can't speak about that at this time.

CRichardson: Playing with fire, son I will say one of my favorite designs to come out for 2012 have been the Rutgers uniforms. I know people have been very divided on those, but I really like the story told with those uniforms, and some of the stuff incorporated in there is very cool (though you wouldn't see it unless you've held a uni in your hand like I have).

AndrewPF: I haven't really had any of my complete designs skewered here, but yes, in general, I do. Often times so many of the comments are made without knowing the full reasoning behind our choices for what we do on a uniform, without knowing the players involved, and the whole story behind everything. We so badly want to tell the world "hey no, you've got it wrong!" and defend our professional decisions, but we can't. That in and of itself is very frustrating.

Gfonk04: What I charge for a logo depends on many many variables. How many logos, how and where its used, what its for, etc. All of those factor into pricing. I can't discuss any specific NFL rules. Glad you like the Navy/Army unis . We use the Adobe Creative Suite, as is the industry standard. As to your last question, the amount of pushback really depends on which client it is. It's a matter of picking your battles.

Kiltman: Can't and won't discuss any specifics for any NFL/NCAA teams. Sorry.

9ersSteve: Nike has zero input for NFL branding processes. Usually we wait for a new brand package to roll out before we start a uniform, but that's not always the case. Oftentimes a logo is part of our design but not the critical piece, so there are times when we swap out previous logos for a new one in mid-process.

[oldschoolvikings]

OK… hopefully this won’t get too annoying for you, but I’ve got another question.

You said that they design process starts with discussions between the team and the designer, implying that the main direction of the final look is primarily client-directed. That’s good news, if true, but it does bring up a few questions in regards to trends. There are a number of uniform fads that seem attached to one Design Company or another, and it seems difficult to believe that various individual teams would independently arrive at the same trend separate from each other. For instance, when Nike is doing a more modern redesign, it almost always involves what we call around here a “monochrome” uniform… pants and jersey the same color. This has been true for some time in the colleges among non-traditional power schools, but also had recently creeped into the NFL… see Seattle, and I’d bet, Jacksonville’s upcoming change. Are you saying that trends like this are team-generated, or is it more a function of Nike having a certain design bias that influences what the teams see and/or are presented?

The same with all these new sublimated patterns that are showing up in the numbers and stripes of a lot of new designs. I find it hard to believe that coaches, owners, school presidents, etc. all independently decided this was the new wave. I understand that the company wants to make it look as much as possible that each client is in control of their ultimate look, but I’m guessing it really isn’t that simple.

If it is each team coming to the same conclusion that these trends are the way to go, I’d find that fascinating. And if its instead, a bias on the part of Nike that monochrome uniforms with small sublimated patterns are what each team should want, how much do I have to pay you to make it stop?

[Coheed]

Really, really good stuff here.

I'm just curious, since you're an Oregon alum, what are your feelings about the direction they've gone this year with their branding as far as moving away from the iconic 'O' to the wing design?

[TheOldRoman]

It's the difference in critiques between saying, "I don't think those shoulder stripes were the best choice for this uniform." versus, "There goes Adidas again, ruining another uniform. What can't they stop being lazy?"

I disagree about that. Clearly, Nike, Adidas et al. have moved towards producing their own proprietary templates. This was presumably for the purpose of their own branding. They have, in many cases, smashed square pegs into round holes by distorting teams' striping patterns to fit them into their proprietary templates. In the case of the New York Jets, I don't know how anyone can look at the three different shades of green on their home jersey (with only the shoulder stripe being their actual shade) and NOT declare it either laziness or callousness. In the end, the Jets had the chance to tell Nike that was unacceptable, as the Packers did, but Nike still presented the Jets with something which is flat out garbage. The Jets were the little old lady and Nike was the swindler who coaxed her into signing her house over to him. You don't blame the old lady in that situation. The same can be said for the flywire collars. They are huge and look horrible. They distort things further because the neck hole is gigantic, with the flywire starting under the place the old collar used to end. This has further cluttered already shrinking jerseys. A few teams chose to not take the flywire, but Nike obviously pitched it to all team as "you will get left in the dust. This is a huge advantage for any team." In that case, the teams trusted Nike and were sold a bill of goods. It wasn't about improving those teams' performance, it was about getting exposure for a collar which is unequivocally Nike.

Another example is Adidas with moving sleeve stripes up, basically onto the shoulders and reducing UCLA type stripes to basically chevrons. That's either laziness or because they just don't care. Ultimately, someone at UCLA has to have the guts to tell Adidas it's unacceptable, but Adidas was forcing the issue anyway by making no efforts to reproduce the stripes in a decent matter. If they did make an effort, the stripes could still look good. I also don't buy the excuse some have offered that we don't understand what goes into manufacturing jerseys and how it isn't as easy as sewing a piece of fabric around the shoulders. Look, a bunch of different Nike teams had their own templates over the past decade. If Illinois can have a jersey with piping going around the back and a bottom stripe, if Mizzou can have a diamond pattern on the side of its jerseys, Nike and Adidas can hammer out a way to veer from their templates and fit respectable shoulder loops.

[kpbl_design]

Buc: I'm not at ignoring you I just really shouldn't say anything too specific. But most designers working for decent companies make a comfortable living once established.

Buc: I agree with Pat; if you're fortunate enough to get hired for a decent company, you can live comfortably... You may never ball outta control, but knowing that you're doing what you love (and getting paid for it) is PRICELESS!!! Even if you decide to go about things independently, I believe you can do well for yourself. You've just gotta hustle your ass off, build quality relationships, and put your best foot forward every time. I'm not the greatest designer in the world, but I do what I can to put myself in a position to succeed. Baby steps are still steps, my brother... Keep at it!