MLB 2016 Changes

[CitizenTino]

On 6/1/2016 at 9:42 PM, VDizzle12 said:

I actually love the red Indians cap. I remember it being extremely popular when it first came out. The cream uniforms though are a bit boring. I'm  hoping that they use both the block C hats as the primary home and aways, while using Wahoo with the alternate blue jersey. Maybe add a red jersey with blue script?

 

Sounds like the red hat might be sticking around and that it is just the cream uniform that is going away. I'm willing to see what the red hat looks like with the standard home white. My main objection was that I didn't like it with the cream.

 

Whatever the Indians do, I'd be surprised if there isn't some sort of new home alternate introduced as a replacement.

[mjd77]

7 hours ago, insert name said:

Maybe they should put a feather against C logo.

 

If they insist on minimizing the use of Wahoo, this is the "C" I'd like to see return.  I don't know if I like the feather in this instance, but with this distinctive font I think the C can work on it's own.  If they get rid of Wahoo completely, maybe some sort of a tepee logo could work as a secondary.

[Gothamite]

7 hours ago, panthers_2012 said:

Can we please stop talking about the Chief Wahoo debate? I'm an Indians fan and I'm tired of it. 

 

Once your team drops the Little Red Sambo logo, we can stop talking about it.

 

I'm tired of it, too.  But this is entirely on the team. 

[Proc]

I really like the simplicity of the Indians, block "C".  I like both the red and the blue version of the caps.

[DAKINS24]

On 01/06/2016 at 8:03 PM, rxmc89 said:

 

Maybe wear them occasionally with the home jerseys, but wearing them full time?  No thanks.  The all blue hats are better.

 

Disagree, the white panels have always been the better looking cap.

 

Just ask the current players who kept using them during BP last season.

[Ark]

It would be a shame if they got rid of Wahoo.

 

Whoever created that logo in 1951 should get a design award. Is Chief Wahoo the first modern logo ever?

[Around the Horn]

On 5/31/2016 at 2:53 PM, BrianLion said:

 

Phillies were sort of a mess yesterday. They had like a camo pseudo-alt look going, instead of their normal home pinstripes. 

 

That's their blue and red cream day alt with camo. and it looks ugly...

[SilverBullet1929]

3 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

That's their blue and red cream day alt with camo. and it looks ugly...

This was one of the worst of the camos because it was like you couldnt even make out the wordmark, just looked like a blob in between the letters.

[Gothamite]

5 hours ago, Ark said:

It would be a shame if they got rid of Wahoo.

 

Whoever created that logo in 1951 should get a design award. Is Chief Wahoo the first modern logo ever?

 

Bill Veeck was behind it, although I don't know if we know who the actual artist was. 

 

Sickens me to admit it, Veeck introduced the logo my team still uses (if not enough). I love his place in history, but this is kind of a blot on that record.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

14 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Bill Veeck was behind it, although I don't know if we know who the actual artist was. 

 

Sickens me to admit it, Veeck introduced the logo my team still uses (if not enough). I love his place in history, but this is kind of a blot on that record.

 

In fairness to Veeck, the context of that image was totally different in those days. I would bet that he never heard a single protesting word about that logo. This stands in sharp contrast to the logo's current-day apologists, who are fully aware of the offence that it causes to Natives, and who have nevertheless decided to disregard this.

 

We might be tempted to assert that the logo's offensiveness should have been obvious. But that would be a case of applying current standards to a previous era.

 

Still, Veeck in his time was a progressive person. Let us remember that he was prevented from buying the Philadelphia Phillies in the 1940s because the other owners knew that he intended to sign Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, and other Negro League stars. So it is a good assumption that, had Veeck been made aware of how offensive and hurtful that Indians logo is to Natives, he would likely have changed it.

[Mitch B]

On June 1, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Gehrig27 said:

I love the matte helmets; they have that great old-time baseball feel to them and it's a change I've been advocating for a while now. Weren't the Pirates the first team to make the switch? I thought they looked great. Besides, Mickey approves of the matte:

Now, If we want to discuss the aesthetic merit of air vents and cool-flo nonsense on today's batting helmets, I'm all ears.

 

I'm a Anti-Yankee fan, but I love everything about that photo.  Awesome uniform ?

[Paul Lucas]

That is exactly what the Yanks should look like on the road. Maybe they can find a way to get that material Missouri uses. Also, they should get rid of the white outlines...and whatever that is on their sleeves.

[Jungle Jim]

1 hour ago, Mitch B said:

 

I'm a Anti-Yankee fan, but I love everything about that photo.  Awesome uniform ?

 

1 hour ago, Paul Lucas said:

That is exactly what the Yanks should look like on the road. Maybe they can find a way to get that material Missouri uses. Also, they should get rid of the white outlines...and whatever that is on their sleeves.

 

Yes, and yes...x1000.

[Paul Lucas]

7 minutes ago, Jungle Jim said:

 

 

Yes, and yes...x1000.

 

[oddball]

I've never understood the hatred for the white outline and the sleeve striping on the Yankees roads. I'm not saying that this look is superior to what the Yankees currently wear, but it is not superior by any means. I think both the current look and this look are equally nice. Then again, I grew up watching the Yanks with the white outline, that may be why I don't find the earlier versions superior. *shrug*

[Gothamite]

"Hatred"?  Whatevs. 

 

The white outline and cuff striping is pointless, fussy detail for its own sake.  Kind of the opposite of the Yankee aesthetic.

[VikWings]

I like the cuff striping. I like it on the Phillies too.

 

Could do with out the white outline though.

[OnWis97]

4 minutes ago, VikWings said:

I like the cuff striping. I like it on the Phillies too.

 

Could do with out the white outline though.

Funny; I was going to say the opposite.  The cuff striping looks so 1980s.  I suppose you could argue the same about the white outlines, but for some reason I find it less egregious.  Because it's the Yankees, they probably should remove both, but I could deal with keeping the outline.  It's funny how so many traditional teams (Cubs, Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees) have great home uniforms and struggle with their road uniforms.  They change them a lot (except for the Yankees) and just don't ever quite seem to nail it (paritcularly the Cubs and the Tigers).  The Red Sox usually have a decent road uniform, but they have not settled on one for the long haul.  The 1980s Red Sox essentially had the road uniform some of us want the Yankees to have.

 

For some reason with the outline, (even though I don't mind it) I always felt like it looked like it fit into 1970s/80 "modern" surroundings. Like the Yankees should have worn it in domes and/or on turf and then gone traditional on grass.  It seemed to fit right into the Metrodome.  By now they'd be wearing the outlines in Tampa and Toronto and the traditional uniforms everywhere else (well maybe not in retractables? But Toronto, open or closed is "domey" enough that the non-traditional uniform would work).

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

8 hours ago, oddball said:

I've never understood the hatred for the white outline and the sleeve striping on the Yankees roads. I'm not saying that this look is superior to what the Yankees currently wear, but it is not superior by any means. I think both the current look and this look are equally nice. Then again, I grew up watching the Yanks with the white outline, that may be why I don't find the earlier versions superior. *shrug*

 

The white outline is much better.  It gives vibrancy to the uniform without diminishing its dignity and gravitas.  The 1973 changes, in which the road uniform's lettering gained the white outline, and in which both uniforms were switched to varsity numbers, is the last change the Yankees will ever need to make to their uniforms. 

 

 

Right.  And this is terrible.

 

 

The Yankees would be insane to go that route.

 

The Red Sox got their road uniform right in the early 2000s (with the obvious exception of the egregious names).

 

 

 

 

[IceCap]

On 2016-06-02 at 10:48 PM, WavePunter said:

I guess I'm just struggling to find the significant link that truly affects, offends, and emotionally disturbs people..

Don't take this the wrong way but if you're a white, Christian, male in America? You really can't say "I don't see why you minority groups would be offended."

Context is everything. I'm certainly not criticising you for not ever having to experience bigotry first hand. Everyone should have the privilege of being blissfully unaware in that regard. My point is simply that you're not coming from a perspective that allows you to see what the problem is. And that's fine. It falls on everyone though to think outside of their own personal experiences.

To not be content with "I don't see what the problem is" and ask "well why would a Native person be offended by this?"

 

Quote

And again, if a couple exaggerated features are the problem, can it not be fixed? If the C logo is ok, and the nickname is ok, then a tasteful Indian logo should then also be ok, correct? And if so, why can't we get on that?

Sure, I agree. At that point though? You're essentially asking for a Washington or Chicago Blackhawks-esque Native logo. Which is fine, but it's essentially an all-new logo anyway. Which means ditching Wahoo.

 

Quote

Is it that tough to find some middle ground where your tradition and history are preserved, but the racism and offensive imagery are gone?.. I just want to see a scenario that TRULY works and most everyone can be comfortable with the result.

The team's been flirting with that ideal solution for a while now. Wahoo does not represent the entirety of the team's history. The block C calls back to the pre-Wahoo era. An era that was more successful, I might add. The Indians haven't won a World Series since Wahoo was adopted in his current form, following the 1948 season. So Wahoo might have a lot of tradition wrapped up in him, but it's certainly not a winning tradition.

Ditching him wouldn't be akin to the Yankees losing the NY. We're not exactly talking about dropping a logo with a winning pedigree.