Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[LMU]

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

Arte Moreno said that it did.

 

He said that corporate partners and sponsors weren’t willing to pay as much to an “Anaheim” team as they are to a “Los Angeles” team.   We have no way of proving or disproving that, but neither do we have any reason not to take him at his word. 

It's all about the TV contract.

 

The issue again is that he's only sticking his toe in enough to get the media rights money without actually committing to either the region the stadium is in nor the region they're named after.  They're the only Big 4 franchise that won't sell a shirt with a city/state/region on it.  That's pretty pathetic.

[SFGiants58]

3 hours ago, pmoehrin said:

They had it right with California Angels. It perfectly reflected their identity as a suburban team trying to attract LA sports fans who don't live in LA. Every name change since has been a downgrade from the one preceding it.

 

I’d say something similar, except with Anaheim being the best name. It represented where they played, set them apart from the Dodgers’ pre-established LA hegemony (an important trait of an expansion team, Mets/Islanders excluded).

 

Winning the World Series in 2002 should have codified it as their proper name. I get that it might not have been monetarily advantageous to keep the Anaheim moniker, but I’ll defend the Anaheim name. If the Ducks can do it, then so can the Angels.

 

It’ll be a good day when Arte sells the team.

[Gothamite]

4 hours ago, LMU said:

It's all about the TV contract.

 

The issue again is that he's only sticking his toe in enough to get the media rights money without actually committing to either the region the stadium is in nor the region they're named after.  They're the only Big 4 franchise that won't sell a shirt with a city/state/region on it.  That's pretty pathetic.

 

For at least the last ten years, Oakland has been using just the name “Raiders” on most merchandise. 

[Cosmic]

21 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

In a classic running gag from Jack Benny's radio show, Mel Blanc portrays a train station announcer who makes the announcement "train leaving on track 5 for Anaheim, Azusa, and Cuc...amonga".

 



 

Those are the types places with which Anaheim can be classed; while Los Angeles ranks with other world-class cosmopolitan centres such as New York, London, and Paris.

A radio bit from the 40s has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Anaheim is a major city in 2019. You might as well live by Issac Newton's opinion of New York City... it will be just as relevant today.

[goalieboy82]

On 6/14/2019 at 12:42 AM, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The mentions of the cultural distinctiveness of Orange County miss the point. The important factor here is simple geography. For a city the magnitude of a Los Angeles, a smaller city only 30 miles away is always going to be part of the larger city's metro area, notwithstanding any cultural differences, and regardless of whether that smaller city is located in another county or in another state. (In the cases of Detroit and Vancouver, smaller cities belonging to the larger city's metro area can even be located in another country.)

 

Yet it is true that the Angels essentially disavow Los Angeles in their branding. They are thus squandering the benefits of identifying with one of the world's greatest cities.

 

What makes the current situation feel so weird is the multiple changes of name. If the team had been called the Los Angeles Angels since its inception, or if it had retained its longstanding identity of California Angels, the t-shirts that read "Angels Baseball" would not be so awkward.

 

The only thing that is for sure about the team's varying names is that "Anaheim" should never have been among those names. The reason touches upon why baseball is indeed different from hockey: hockey is a niche sport in the United States, while baseball is a huge national institution.

 

In a classic running gag from Jack Benny's radio show, Mel Blanc portrays a train station announcer who makes the announcement "train leaving on track 5 for Anaheim, Azusa, and Cuc...amonga".

 

 

Those are the types places with which Anaheim can be classed; while Los Angeles ranks with other world-class cosmopolitan centres such as New York, London, and Paris.

 

To put it most starkly: Major League Baseball is too big for Anaheim. And so is the NFL. But the NHL is not. 

and this too:

 

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

On 6/15/2019 at 8:31 PM, goalieboy82 said:

and this too:

 

 

Yes, indeed! The Looney Tunes cartoons contain so many great bits taken from radio shows. And it wasn't only Jack Benny.  Mel Blanc brought the voice of his Happy Postman character from Burns and Allen's show to his characterisation of the Easter Bunny.

 

And there were several Fibber McGee and Molly gags that I first heard in the cartoons: Bugs once recognised Myrtle the phone operator, and said to her "That you, Myrt? How's every little thing?"; Blanc did his version of two characters played on the show by Bill Thompson (who was the voice of Droopy Dog): Wallace Wimple (with the abusive wife Sweety Face, called Sweetie Pie in the cartoon) and the Old Timer ("That ain't the way I heared it!"); and Daffy Duck once uttered Molly's famous "'Tain't funny, McGee". When I eventually heard these things on The Fibber McGee and Molly Show, I would slap my head and go "Oooooooh, so that's where that's from!"

 

The Looney Tunes / Merrie Melodies cartoons taught several generations so much about the entertainment world, including radio comedy, popular music (I cannot even count how many hit songs I heard first as sung by Bugs Bunny!), and movies. This cartoon series itself became a cultural touchstone, and one of the most significant artistic achievements of the 20th century.

[alxy8s]

 

[mania]

This strikes me as just absolutely cuckoo. You'll be playing in two bad stadium situations and be half-committed to each market?

 

 

[AustinFromBoston]

So now they can play in 2 empty stadiums instead of 1.  

[goalieboy82]

3 minutes ago, mania said:

This strikes me as just absolutely cuckoo. You'll be playing in two bad stadium situations and be half-committed to each market?

 

 

[SFGiants58]

“Permission to explore” = blackmail for Tampa Bay stadium. They’ve finally escalated to the blackmail phase! Let’s see if the market cares.

[jc...]

Ex-Rays

[Guy with Machete]

That sounds like the most godawful idea ever. Why would people in Tampa bother to turnout for a team that would spend the latter half of the season in Montreal?

[LMU]

Quote

Under the plan, the Rays would play in new stadiums in both the Tampa Bay area and Montreal, according to sources. The ability to play games early in the season in Florida would preclude the need for a domed stadium, cutting the cost of a new building. A month ago, Bronfman -- who along with Montreal businessman Mitch Garber has expressed interest in taking a minority stake in the Rays alongside owner Stuart Sternberg -- reached an agreement with a developer on a site in Montreal's Point-Saint-Charles neighborhood to potentially build a new stadium.

We can’t get a new stadium, so we’ll build two!

[SFGiants58]

Contraction would be better, or merging with the Marlins.

[PrimalCookie]

Tampa wouldn’t show up (before everyone makes a funny original reply to this comment, yes, there are Rays fans in Tampa and the rest of Florida and they show up for games) for a team that “left”, and Montreal wouldn’t show up because the team isn’t “fully theirs”.

 

This is quite possibly the worst solution they could’ve come up with. Either stay or leave. You can’t have both.

[leopard88]

This just seems like an unworkable situation.  Teams have played parts of the schedules in other cities before (White Sox in Milwaukee, Expos in San Juan, Bullets in Baltimore, Dodgers in Jersey City). Teams have also shared/rotated among cities (Virginia Squires, Floridians, Carolina Cougars, Kansas City-Omaha Kings).  However, the latter situations all involved either one primary city (more or less) and/or teams with some regional/geographic connection (usually being within one state).  This would involve a team playing in two cities located about 1,500 miles apart with no apparent/realistic connection.

 

If you're a fan in Florida, it seems like it would be difficult to retain an attachment to a team that you know won't be in town for the home stretch of any playoff race.  Meanwhile, if you're a fan in Quebec, you know you won't be able to watch your team in person for several months of the season.

Edited June 20, 2019 by crashcarson15
MOD EDIT: Removing background info from duplicate thread, keeping opinion

[crashcarson15]

This is 100% a negotiating tactic, I think, but the idea isn't really that far from workable. If you want an outside park in Montreal and are concerned about early-season weather, just have the team play 3 or 4 home series in wherever their Spring Training park is, then have "home" Opening Day in May or whatever. Home slate of 69ish games, which is fine and balances the need to have a clear home city with scheduling concerns (and also keeping something as egregiously stupid as this from happening).

[Digby]

If you squint the “elb” could kind of be a stingray shape.

[TBGKon]

I could see a share like Montreal and San Juan worked in the 2000s, but this will not work full time.

 

I dont want to lose the Rays, and have set my personal expectations that over the next 5-6 years it will only get worse before it gets better.  Montreal to the Rays is what Tampa Bay/St Pete was to places like Seattle, San Francisco, and Chicago in the 90s.  Its the threat of actual relocation that causes movement.