2011 MLB Season Thread

[pmoehrin]

It could be that the Rockies won't be able to re-sign Jiminez when his contract expires, so they might as well get something for him now.

He was signed through next year and has two team options in 2013 and 2014, so there goes that theory.

Team options aside (and it really depends on how much those options would have cost the Rockies), teams are now starting to trade players that have 1.5 years left on their deals instead of just the final two months. They can get a lot more in return when you're not getting a "rental" player.

Yeah but he's got two team options on top of next year both at around $9 million. No team in their right mind would make that deal purely for contract reasons and if they are then they have bigger problems.

If they're looking to dump salary they would be giving up more then just Ubaldo Jimenez. They made no other significant moves.

The Rockies team salary is about $88 million with their biggest contract in Todd Helton set to come off the books next year and the option to take their second biggest contract in Aaron Cook off the books. There's no reason this team should be having any money problems.

[See Red]

It could be that the Rockies won't be able to re-sign Jiminez when his contract expires, so they might as well get something for him now.

He was signed through next year and has two team options in 2013 and 2014, so there goes that theory.

Team options aside (and it really depends on how much those options would have cost the Rockies), teams are now starting to trade players that have 1.5 years left on their deals instead of just the final two months. They can get a lot more in return when you're not getting a "rental" player.

As I understand it, he's lost velocity and perhaps the Rockies see him as a guy who may not be able to repeat the success he had early last year and wanted to deal him while he still had a lot of value. They got a pretty good haul for a guy who's been pretty below-average all year, they probably felt that they wouldn't get that for him down the road.

[pmoehrin]

As I understand it, he's lost velocity and perhaps the Rockies see him as a guy who may not be able to repeat the success he had early last year and wanted to deal him while he still had a lot of value. They got a pretty good haul for a guy who's been pretty below-average all year, they probably felt that they wouldn't get that for him down the road.

I think that's much more in line with what they're thinking was. Get rid of him now before the injuries start piling up and teams start realizing you'll never get a year like he had last year out of him ever again.

[mania]

After 3 consecutive "heart attack" type games against the Indians, a blowout was just what the Rangers needed.

[crashcarson15]

For what it's worth, Ubaldo's velocity has been creeping back up all year long. In the 10 starts from June 1 til the middle of July when trade rumors swirled, he had an ERA under 2.60 and 69 K's in 66 innings or so.

Re: Pomeranz and White? Neither of them probably would've been an ace. Jimenez had a chance to be. Also, remember at one point, Andy Marte was a top prospect. Then again, Bartolo Colon was "proven" and Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips, and Cliff Lee were "just prospects."

So we'll see what happens. I doubt the Tribe can hang around with the bullpen going to hell, but if there's one thing about this team, they don't quit. Fact of the matter is, you gotta win Masterson against Fister, and you have to win Ubaldo's start on Wednesday. You'll expect to lose to Cy Verlander, so taking 2 out of 3 would have to be that way, and that's what the Tribe have to do. 39 of the last 50 are against the division, and the other 11 are against the Mariners, A's, and *sigh* Rangers. Real weak schedule though, 12 games against teams with winning records. The possibility's there to make the playoffs, but then again, the Tigers are also in the same spot, with 9 against the Tribe, 3 against the Rays, and then 7 against the Orioles and 4 against the A's.

[ninersdd]

Does anybody want to win the NL West? Zona got their a$$es handed to them by the ASTROS, and the Giants were blanked by the icy cold Pirates(whom the the Padres slaughtered this past weekend)

[crashcarson15]

Not really. The DBacks are 1-3 now against the Dodgers and Astros since that 3-game set in SF.

Also, glad to see Juan Nicasio's walking already. That was the second-scariest thing I've ever seen at a sporting event. (First was at a high-school basketball game where a kid just randomly collapsed in the middle of the game.)

[pmoehrin]

I'd still have to say the Giants are heavy favorites in the NL West.

Arizona had to go on that insane run just to catch the Giants and its a pace that I don't think they can maintain.

Arizona just got red hot in the month of May, but outside of that they've been roughly a .500 team, which is what I think they are. San Francisco is having their worst stretch of the season right now (2-8 in their last ten games) and they are still leading the way.

Unless Arizona catches lightning again or San Francisco just falls flat on their faces I don't see Arizona beating out the Giants. Bullpen has been alot better this year, but there's nobody in that rotation right now that I would be terrified of facing. Not saying someone like Ian Kennedy or Daniel Hudson can't be that at some point down the road, but neither one is there yet.

I think it will be close until the end of the month. I think by then San Francisco will be up by 3-4 games, and the lead in September will slowly expand to about 8 games. Arizona will keep it close most of the way, but close is about all it will be.

[crashcarson15]

The DBacks have to win almost every start from Kennedy and Hudson from here on out and get 1 out of 3 every time another guy steps on the hill. I don't see it happening, then again, the Giants aren't too much to write home about. They rode a couple of pitchers to a World Series last year, but the lineup is far from stellar.

[FiddySicks]

The Giants look awful this season. They've had some crippling injuries and it seems that the Beltran trade just dropped what was left of their chemistry as well. I still see the Giants winning the division this year, but I expect Atlanta to make pretty easy work of them in the first round.

This has been my World Series prediction all along:

Bos(4)- Atl(2)

[Seadragon76]

After 3 consecutive "heart attack" type games against the Indians, a blowout was just what the Rangers needed.

Thank you...

[ESTONES6]

I'm going to give Ubaldo the benefit of the doubt... first game with a new team, he "mental anguish" still fresh, going on the road to a contender, in a hitters' ball park.

I would be very nervous if I were an Indians fan with regards to Ubaldo Jimenez.

This has been the Rockies best pitcher over the last two seasons and he's coming into what should be his prime years. This is a team that shouldn't be in rebuilding mode and could feasibly win the NL West next year.

So why are they giving up on him? There's no answer to that I can come up with that makes any sense other then they know something about him that nobody else does.

Well, we do know he's lost a couple digits on his fastball....

That's always how it starts. Oh he has some discomfort in his throwing arm but he can get through it. Then its well he needs to go in for an MRI. Then its he needs to have surgery. Then oh we found more structural damage then we expected.

By the end you get something like Jake Peavy where your just hoping he can come back full time and be at least two thirds of the pitcher you thought you were getting.

Hopefully that's not the case, but to me it made no sense for the Rockies to dump this guy and why they did so is a reason that they won't tell because if they did I don't think they would have gotten any takers.

Yankees wanted an MRI on his shoulder and elbow before they proceeded with trade talks, Rockies said no. Yankees bailed.

You can't use that excuse. The Indians did a full physical and everything on him before the trade became official. So the Rockies let the Indians look him over but not the Yankees? I find that hard to believe....Their GM said himself no other team offered them players they were interested in.

Well... last year, Ubaldo was hitting 98-99MPH... at the start of this year, he was around 91-92MPH, but it looks like he has gotten his velocity back up to the 95-97MPH range.

As for the whole idea of the Rockies trading an ace when they are 1-2 years away from being in contention for the Division and maybe the Pennant, it makes sense. It's actually what the Indians should have had enough foresight to do. The Indians are not legitimate contenders this year. They have a shot at the Division if the Tigers begin to falter. The Indians have 4 offensive players who aren't ready to win NOW yet... LaPorta, Santana, Chisenhall, and Kipnis. They are still learning how to deal with big league pitching. Next year, I think they are going to be better, more ready to hit big league pitching... that would be just about the time White and Pomeranz would be ready to take their spots in the #1-#3 range in the starting rotation.

To me, it was a no-brainer for the Rockies. You deal away a guy who has been a 1 year wonder for 2 top level prospects. One has a powerful fastball and the other is a big lefty, flying through the farm system. I can't remember the last time a team traded their top 2 prospects for 1 question mark in the same trade.

[philly97flyer]

And as a nice big f you to the league, Victorino appeals his suspension, remains in the lineup for last night's game, and just happens to score 3 runs in a game his team wins by 2. When its good, its good

[NJTank]

I dont understand why Victorino was the only player suspended and Eli Kangaroo Whiteside was not punished.

[crashcarson15]

I'm going to give Ubaldo the benefit of the doubt... first game with a new team, he "mental anguish" still fresh, going on the road to a contender, in a hitters' ball park.

I would be very nervous if I were an Indians fan with regards to Ubaldo Jimenez.

This has been the Rockies best pitcher over the last two seasons and he's coming into what should be his prime years. This is a team that shouldn't be in rebuilding mode and could feasibly win the NL West next year.

So why are they giving up on him? There's no answer to that I can come up with that makes any sense other then they know something about him that nobody else does.

Well, we do know he's lost a couple digits on his fastball....

That's always how it starts. Oh he has some discomfort in his throwing arm but he can get through it. Then its well he needs to go in for an MRI. Then its he needs to have surgery. Then oh we found more structural damage then we expected.

By the end you get something like Jake Peavy where your just hoping he can come back full time and be at least two thirds of the pitcher you thought you were getting.

Hopefully that's not the case, but to me it made no sense for the Rockies to dump this guy and why they did so is a reason that they won't tell because if they did I don't think they would have gotten any takers.

Yankees wanted an MRI on his shoulder and elbow before they proceeded with trade talks, Rockies said no. Yankees bailed.

You can't use that excuse. The Indians did a full physical and everything on him before the trade became official. So the Rockies let the Indians look him over but not the Yankees? I find that hard to believe....Their GM said himself no other team offered them players they were interested in.

Well... last year, Ubaldo was hitting 98-99MPH... at the start of this year, he was around 91-92MPH, but it looks like he has gotten his velocity back up to the 95-97MPH range.

As for the whole idea of the Rockies trading an ace when they are 1-2 years away from being in contention for the Division and maybe the Pennant, it makes sense. It's actually what the Indians should have had enough foresight to do. The Indians are not legitimate contenders this year. They have a shot at the Division if the Tigers begin to falter. The Indians have 4 offensive players who aren't ready to win NOW yet... LaPorta, Santana, Chisenhall, and Kipnis. They are still learning how to deal with big league pitching. Next year, I think they are going to be better, more ready to hit big league pitching... that would be just about the time White and Pomeranz would be ready to take their spots in the #1-#3 range in the starting rotation.

To me, it was a no-brainer for the Rockies. You deal away a guy who has been a 1 year wonder for 2 top level prospects. One has a powerful fastball and the other is a big lefty, flying through the farm system. I can't remember the last time a team traded their top 2 prospects for 1 question mark in the same trade.

Alex White had already started having injury problems (read: Adam Miller), and Pomeranz had dropped like a rock in the draft we took him in. Neither one of these guys were projected to be #1 quality. All along it was "#2 or #3 starter" material. Look, as a small-market team, the Indians had to take a chance on a guy that was pitching with a sub-2.60 ERA and a K/9 over 9 in his 10 starts from June 1 til the rumours started swirling.

Ubaldo Jimenez has the potential (and has shown it) to be a number 1 in the majors. Top scouts and the Tribe don't think that White and Pomeranz were going to have that potential.

Pomeranz wasn't probably going to see Cleveland (or much of it) until late 2012 or 2013, and maybe you would have had a developing White. White could've been a 4 in 2012, and a 3 in 2013, while Pomeranz would've maybe been a spot-starter next year, a 4 in 2013, and by then the window to win is just about over. You've gotta go for the guy who's got the stuff to be a number 1 for the next few years. Also, in his start last Friday, Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz went 0/6 with 5 K's. That's the kinda stuff the Tribe traded for.'

Look, it's always been a complaint of many of the Indians front office that they don't take enough chances. Well this is one. You have to take chances if you wanna win.

[BBTV]

I dont understand why Victorino was the only player suspended and Eli Kangaroo Whiteside was not punished.

Most likely because of the contact with the umpire. It'll probably get dropped to 2 games on appeal. I'm surprised that Sandoval didn't get anything, and the kangaroo may have deserved a little more but it's hard to argue against a suspension when you are engaged with an umpire like Victorino was.

[ESTONES6]

I'm going to give Ubaldo the benefit of the doubt... first game with a new team, he "mental anguish" still fresh, going on the road to a contender, in a hitters' ball park.

I would be very nervous if I were an Indians fan with regards to Ubaldo Jimenez.

This has been the Rockies best pitcher over the last two seasons and he's coming into what should be his prime years. This is a team that shouldn't be in rebuilding mode and could feasibly win the NL West next year.

So why are they giving up on him? There's no answer to that I can come up with that makes any sense other then they know something about him that nobody else does.

Well, we do know he's lost a couple digits on his fastball....

That's always how it starts. Oh he has some discomfort in his throwing arm but he can get through it. Then its well he needs to go in for an MRI. Then its he needs to have surgery. Then oh we found more structural damage then we expected.

By the end you get something like Jake Peavy where your just hoping he can come back full time and be at least two thirds of the pitcher you thought you were getting.

Hopefully that's not the case, but to me it made no sense for the Rockies to dump this guy and why they did so is a reason that they won't tell because if they did I don't think they would have gotten any takers.

Yankees wanted an MRI on his shoulder and elbow before they proceeded with trade talks, Rockies said no. Yankees bailed.

You can't use that excuse. The Indians did a full physical and everything on him before the trade became official. So the Rockies let the Indians look him over but not the Yankees? I find that hard to believe....Their GM said himself no other team offered them players they were interested in.

Well... last year, Ubaldo was hitting 98-99MPH... at the start of this year, he was around 91-92MPH, but it looks like he has gotten his velocity back up to the 95-97MPH range.

As for the whole idea of the Rockies trading an ace when they are 1-2 years away from being in contention for the Division and maybe the Pennant, it makes sense. It's actually what the Indians should have had enough foresight to do. The Indians are not legitimate contenders this year. They have a shot at the Division if the Tigers begin to falter. The Indians have 4 offensive players who aren't ready to win NOW yet... LaPorta, Santana, Chisenhall, and Kipnis. They are still learning how to deal with big league pitching. Next year, I think they are going to be better, more ready to hit big league pitching... that would be just about the time White and Pomeranz would be ready to take their spots in the #1-#3 range in the starting rotation.

To me, it was a no-brainer for the Rockies. You deal away a guy who has been a 1 year wonder for 2 top level prospects. One has a powerful fastball and the other is a big lefty, flying through the farm system. I can't remember the last time a team traded their top 2 prospects for 1 question mark in the same trade.

Alex White had already started having injury problems (read: Adam Miller), and Pomeranz had dropped like a rock in the draft we took him in. Neither one of these guys were projected to be #1 quality. All along it was "#2 or #3 starter" material. Look, as a small-market team, the Indians had to take a chance on a guy that was pitching with a sub-2.60 ERA and a K/9 over 9 in his 10 starts from June 1 til the rumours started swirling.

Ubaldo Jimenez has the potential (and has shown it) to be a number 1 in the majors. Top scouts and the Tribe don't think that White and Pomeranz were going to have that potential.

Pomeranz wasn't probably going to see Cleveland (or much of it) until late 2012 or 2013, and maybe you would have had a developing White. White could've been a 4 in 2012, and a 3 in 2013, while Pomeranz would've maybe been a spot-starter next year, a 4 in 2013, and by then the window to win is just about over. You've gotta go for the guy who's got the stuff to be a number 1 for the next few years. Also, in his start last Friday, Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz went 0/6 with 5 K's. That's the kinda stuff the Tribe traded for.'

Look, it's always been a complaint of many of the Indians front office that they don't take enough chances. Well this is one. You have to take chances if you wanna win.

I don't know where you are getting a lot of that from. The Indians, as well as most MLB teams, and scouting agencies were rating Pomz and White somewhere in #1-#3 range.

As for the front office and their moves, or lack their of... I'm all for a front office making moves when they are the right move. Ubaldo has to be the #1 (#2 if Masterson keeps this up) for this trade to pan out, or else the last 3 1/2 years of rebuilding was all in vain. White and Pomz were high not just on Indians boards, but on MLB boards, and other teams' boards.

I don't, nor should any reasonable fan, complain just because a team doesn't make a move. I complain when a feasible move CAN be made but the team doesn't do it. The whole "make a move just to make a move" is bull . Right now, Ublando was/is a risk. You absolutely have NO IDEA what you are getting from him.

[mania]

I can't remember the last time a team traded their top 2 prospects for 1 question mark in the same trade.

You could argue that they didn't.

Looking at the recent prospect lists, Kipnis was the Top Prospect according to Kevin Goldstein. He was 15, Pomeranz was 20, and White wasn't on his Top 50. By Baseball America, Pomeranz was 14, Kipnis was 31, and White again wasn't in the Top 50.

In the long run, the rankings don't matter too much. The Indians paid a :censored:ing haul, probably the biggest prospect collection since the Diamondbacks acquisition of Dan Haren or the Braves picking up Mark Teixeira... I still don't think it makes a lot of sense, because I don't think this season is truly the Indians competitive window, but I guess we'll all know for sure int he long run.

[NJTank]

I think victorino deserved a few games, but so did Whiteside.

[WJMorris3]

I think Victorino got off easy, I would have suspended him for, say, 15 to 20 games.