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2011NCAA Football Thread


Gary

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The NCAA might actually have to come down hard on Miami given this is going to embarrass the NCAA as well. The head of the committee on infractions is Paul Dee who was the Miami AD when this all went on. I'm sure USC will be looking at how the Miami case goes given what they got and this is much much worse.

Yeah, if one photo is all it took to nail USC to a wall, well...I never thought I'd see a scandal in which a TV ban struck me as "lenient". At least we have a better idea about why OSU et. al. have been relatively skating by this offseason. Miami just re-zeroed the punishment baseline.

The NCAA can't play like everyone was dumb here. The is doubly embarrassing for the NCAA (I'm talking about actually NCAA organization) The guy they put in charge to over see punishment for this type of stuff turned out to be the head of a major program during the time all this occurred. And this stuff is bad, not only is is a booster giving cash to players it is also where that cash came from. This booster ran a ponzi scheme and is why he is jail now. It was stolen money basically that not only got in the players hands but the school took itself. That's bad, much worse than an agent loaning a player some money. Obviously none of them knew the money was basically stolen, but you look at the other actions he made during this time frame he should have been a red flag of a booster.

This is like Eliot Spitzer getting caught with a prostitute after he was the one in charge of cracking down on prostitution. The pressure on the NCAA is going to immense. They may just have to serve up Miami as a sacrificial lamb.

But what is his motive to give information to the NCAA who does not have subpoena power? Last August while jailed, he tried to get his book published. There were no takers, but Yahoo! Sports, so he now releases this information BEFORE the book is published?

If he does not talk, he is basically Sam Gilbert.

Sam Gilbert. If Wooden was the father figure of UCLA basketball, Gilbert was its shadowy one.

Gilbert was a small, burly, self-made man with unfettered devotion to the Bruins. He could be benevolent yet, to nose-poking reporters, a bully. He attended UCLA in the 1930s but did not graduate, later to make his fortune as a contractor.

UCLA players recalled his showing up after Bruins games in the 1960s, dispensing apples and oranges.

He forged bonds with many Bruins who helped hang 10 national championship banners from 1964 to 1975, the year Wooden retired.

Gilbert held dinners at his home, provided UCLA players with advice, counsel and much, much more. He was "Papa Sam" to UCLA's parade of All-Americans ? he even negotiated contracts, usually taking only a dollar, when the NBA beckoned various Bruins.

"There were two people I listened to," former UCLA star Lucius Allen once told The Times. "Coach Wooden as long as we were between the lines. Outside the court ? Sam Gilbert."

Wooden was wary of Gilbert but generally turned a blind eye.

"Maybe I had tunnel vision," Wooden once said. "I still don't think he's had any great impact on the basketball program."

Gilbert's influence ultimately helped land UCLA basketball on NCAA probation. In December 1981, UCLA was cited for nine infractions and received two years' probation, which included a one-year NCAA tournament ban and an order to vacate its 1980 NCAA national title game appearance against Louisville.

The most serious allegation levied against Gilbert was that he co-signed a promissory note so a player could buy a car. The NCAA ordered UCLA to disassociate Gilbert from its recruiting process.

Larry Brown was UCLA's basketball coach in 1980; none of the violations were tied to Wooden's era.

A 1981 Times investigative series, which interviewed 45 people connected with the basketball program, established Gilbert as "a one-man clearing house who has enabled players and their families to receive goods and services usually at big discounts and sometimes at no cost."

Robinson and Shapiro have reportedly been working with the NCAA since April.

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^^^ Again what is one's motive to cooperate unless one has a book to sell?

He, like other boosters and alumni, "buy" access to teenager athletes to stroke their ego and possibly to "stroke" a co-ed who they may meet via said athlete. That is basically it since most are not as wealthy as a Phil Knight (Oregon), Boone Pickens (Ok State), or a Jamail (Texas) to have the influence which they perceive that their money can buy.

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^^^ Again what is one's motive to cooperate unless one has a book to sell?

Revenge? The NFL Miami alums kind of ignored him when he mentioned the restitution he needs to pay.

And with what yahoo was publishing with the article, the NCAA doesn't need to subpoena anyone really.

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^^^ Again what is one's motive to cooperate unless one has a book to sell?

Revenge? The NFL Miami alums kind of ignored him when he mentioned the restitution he needs to pay.

And with what yahoo was publishing with the article, the NCAA doesn't need to subpoena anyone really.

And that was the risk he took in running a scam through grocery distribution. Plus, NFL players who "make it" are continually asked to assist others for money in which is never given back. And they are athletes who blow through their money faster than most.

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After this is said and done, Miami will bring nothing but a warm body to the ACC. Anyone think the ACC will kick out Miami sooner or later and come expansion time they'll replace them and whoever else they lose to the SEC?

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Wait, this is Miami? For a second there, I thought they were talking about the SMU scandal :P

Here you go son

Ponzi artists, street runner and law enforcement tries to "take care" of the star teen athlete.

Read the story on ESPN and saw the video. Cliff Harris passed a sobriety test. So?

This is Oregon. The cop was probably higher than Cliff Harris was. I believe pot is a misdemeanor here. If you are actually trying to say this is as bad as Miami, then you obviously don't know Eugene. We got a but ton of weed, but that's about it. In Medford ,where I live, we got one night club and it's run down and full of aging hookers. We couldn't be as bad as Miami if we wanted to.

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If this guy Shapiro is telling the truth, it is a definite possiblity. He's saying not only did I do illegal things, the coaches as well as the university knew about it and let me run wild for years.

Say what you want about the NCAA and how much leeway they give big name programs, one thing they will not put up with from any program is being made a fool of.

They took away USC's National Title essentially because of one player. If you belive this guy, 1/5 of the team was committing major violations and not only did the University know about it, they let it slide and didn't say a word.

The NCAA also has congress breathing down thier necks as well big time right now. Alot of College Presidents and Professors are getting really fed up with having to read about these stories and they seem to be getting more and more frequent. For them its gotten to the point where they are starting to tell the NCAA if you don't clean up this problem with major college athletics, we're going to bring in some people that will.

The NCAA may have to make an example out of Miami just to save face. A slap on the wrist just won't do it this time. People are going to want blood from this program and aren't going to accept anything less. I don't think anything will happen until after the season is over. I think the NCAA is going to take their time with this, but once the season is over, I think you'll see them bring the hammer down.

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The NCAA might actually have to come down hard on Miami given this is going to embarrass the NCAA as well. The head of the committee on infractions is Paul Dee who was the Miami AD when this all went on. I'm sure USC will be looking at how the Miami case goes given what they got and this is much much worse.

Yeah, if one photo is all it took to nail USC to a wall, well...I never thought I'd see a scandal in which a TV ban struck me as "lenient". At least we have a better idea about why OSU et. al. have been relatively skating by this offseason. Miami just re-zeroed the punishment baseline.

The NCAA can't play like everyone was dumb here. The is doubly embarrassing for the NCAA (I'm talking about actually NCAA organization) The guy they put in charge to over see punishment for this type of stuff turned out to be the head of a major program during the time all this occurred. And this stuff is bad, not only is is a booster giving cash to players it is also where that cash came from. This booster ran a ponzi scheme and is why he is jail now. It was stolen money basically that not only got in the players hands but the school took itself. That's bad, much worse than an agent loaning a player some money. Obviously none of them knew the money was basically stolen, but you look at the other actions he made during this time frame he should have been a red flag of a booster.

This is like Eliot Spitzer getting caught with a prostitute after he was the one in charge of cracking down on prostitution. The pressure on the NCAA is going to immense. They may just have to serve up Miami as a sacrificial lamb.

But what is his motive to give information to the NCAA who does not have subpoena power? Last August while jailed, he tried to get his book published. There were no takers, but Yahoo! Sports, so he now releases this information BEFORE the book is published?

If he does not talk, he is basically Sam Gilbert.

Sam Gilbert. If Wooden was the father figure of UCLA basketball, Gilbert was its shadowy one.

Gilbert was a small, burly, self-made man with unfettered devotion to the Bruins. He could be benevolent yet, to nose-poking reporters, a bully. He attended UCLA in the 1930s but did not graduate, later to make his fortune as a contractor.

UCLA players recalled his showing up after Bruins games in the 1960s, dispensing apples and oranges.

He forged bonds with many Bruins who helped hang 10 national championship banners from 1964 to 1975, the year Wooden retired.

Gilbert held dinners at his home, provided UCLA players with advice, counsel and much, much more. He was "Papa Sam" to UCLA's parade of All-Americans ? he even negotiated contracts, usually taking only a dollar, when the NBA beckoned various Bruins.

"There were two people I listened to," former UCLA star Lucius Allen once told The Times. "Coach Wooden as long as we were between the lines. Outside the court ? Sam Gilbert."

Wooden was wary of Gilbert but generally turned a blind eye.

"Maybe I had tunnel vision," Wooden once said. "I still don't think he's had any great impact on the basketball program."

Gilbert's influence ultimately helped land UCLA basketball on NCAA probation. In December 1981, UCLA was cited for nine infractions and received two years' probation, which included a one-year NCAA tournament ban and an order to vacate its 1980 NCAA national title game appearance against Louisville.

The most serious allegation levied against Gilbert was that he co-signed a promissory note so a player could buy a car. The NCAA ordered UCLA to disassociate Gilbert from its recruiting process.

Larry Brown was UCLA's basketball coach in 1980; none of the violations were tied to Wooden's era.

A 1981 Times investigative series, which interviewed 45 people connected with the basketball program, established Gilbert as "a one-man clearing house who has enabled players and their families to receive goods and services usually at big discounts and sometimes at no cost."

Robinson and Shapiro have reportedly been working with the NCAA since April.

This is why I think Wooden is a lying hypocritical sack of :censored: and I am so glad he is dead I only wish he had lived in agonizing pain for the last 30 years. Someone with as tight a control over an athletic program as he had over UCLA basketball you know damn well he knew everything that went on as far as boosters and such, yet he has been fawned over and had his dick collectively sucked by everyone at ESPN etall.

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This is why I think Wooden is a lying hypocritical sack of :censored: and I am so glad he is dead I only wish he had lived in agonizing pain for the last 30 years. Someone with as tight a control over an athletic program as he had over UCLA basketball you know damn well he knew everything that went on as far as boosters and such, yet he has been fawned over and had his dick collectively sucked by everyone at ESPN etall.

Wow... seriously?

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DuckFats has consistently showed that he cannot engage in discourse here without venom, hyperbole, or mutual respect. He's easily been the worst troll since he signed up, and is probably a banned member who came back.

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Wouldn't you want him to post WITH mutual respect? lol

That said, Fatty, chill the :censored: out. And I'm glad a few people are dead. Some for different reasons than others but none are as low of an importance level as a college basketball coach. Get a handle on life.

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The NCAA might actually have to come down hard on Miami given this is going to embarrass the NCAA as well. The head of the committee on infractions is Paul Dee who was the Miami AD when this all went on. I'm sure USC will be looking at how the Miami case goes given what they got and this is much much worse.

Yeah, if one photo is all it took to nail USC to a wall, well...I never thought I'd see a scandal in which a TV ban struck me as "lenient". At least we have a better idea about why OSU et. al. have been relatively skating by this offseason. Miami just re-zeroed the punishment baseline.

The NCAA can't play like everyone was dumb here. The is doubly embarrassing for the NCAA (I'm talking about actually NCAA organization) The guy they put in charge to over see punishment for this type of stuff turned out to be the head of a major program during the time all this occurred. And this stuff is bad, not only is is a booster giving cash to players it is also where that cash came from. This booster ran a ponzi scheme and is why he is jail now. It was stolen money basically that not only got in the players hands but the school took itself. That's bad, much worse than an agent loaning a player some money. Obviously none of them knew the money was basically stolen, but you look at the other actions he made during this time frame he should have been a red flag of a booster.

This is like Eliot Spitzer getting caught with a prostitute after he was the one in charge of cracking down on prostitution. The pressure on the NCAA is going to immense. They may just have to serve up Miami as a sacrificial lamb.

But what is his motive to give information to the NCAA who does not have subpoena power? Last August while jailed, he tried to get his book published. There were no takers, but Yahoo! Sports, so he now releases this information BEFORE the book is published?

If he does not talk, he is basically Sam Gilbert.

Sam Gilbert. If Wooden was the father figure of UCLA basketball, Gilbert was its shadowy one.

Gilbert was a small, burly, self-made man with unfettered devotion to the Bruins. He could be benevolent yet, to nose-poking reporters, a bully. He attended UCLA in the 1930s but did not graduate, later to make his fortune as a contractor.

UCLA players recalled his showing up after Bruins games in the 1960s, dispensing apples and oranges.

He forged bonds with many Bruins who helped hang 10 national championship banners from 1964 to 1975, the year Wooden retired.

Gilbert held dinners at his home, provided UCLA players with advice, counsel and much, much more. He was "Papa Sam" to UCLA's parade of All-Americans ? he even negotiated contracts, usually taking only a dollar, when the NBA beckoned various Bruins.

"There were two people I listened to," former UCLA star Lucius Allen once told The Times. "Coach Wooden as long as we were between the lines. Outside the court ? Sam Gilbert."

Wooden was wary of Gilbert but generally turned a blind eye.

"Maybe I had tunnel vision," Wooden once said. "I still don't think he's had any great impact on the basketball program."

Gilbert's influence ultimately helped land UCLA basketball on NCAA probation. In December 1981, UCLA was cited for nine infractions and received two years' probation, which included a one-year NCAA tournament ban and an order to vacate its 1980 NCAA national title game appearance against Louisville.

The most serious allegation levied against Gilbert was that he co-signed a promissory note so a player could buy a car. The NCAA ordered UCLA to disassociate Gilbert from its recruiting process.

Larry Brown was UCLA's basketball coach in 1980; none of the violations were tied to Wooden's era.

A 1981 Times investigative series, which interviewed 45 people connected with the basketball program, established Gilbert as "a one-man clearing house who has enabled players and their families to receive goods and services usually at big discounts and sometimes at no cost."

Robinson and Shapiro have reportedly been working with the NCAA since April.

This is why I think Wooden is a lying hypocritical sack of :censored: and I am so glad he is dead I only wish he had lived in agonizing pain for the last 30 years. Someone with as tight a control over an athletic program as he had over UCLA basketball you know damn well he knew everything that went on as far as boosters and such, yet he has been fawned over and had his dick collectively sucked by everyone at ESPN etall.

Damn. This one's going to be tough to beat. I don't think you can troll harder than "Wooden is a lying hypocritical sack of :censored: and I am so glad he is dead". Kevin, we gotta get into some argument about how Western Kentucky will win the National Championship or something. Otherwise, this guy might take over our spots (along with Lights Out) as biggest trolls, and I for one will not stand for this! In other words:

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It is time the NCAA is torn down and rebuilt from scratch, there are too many rules, and everything is too hard to enforce. Look over the priorities find the rules that are most important and start from there. There is just too much corruption right now and nothing short of starting from scratch can fix this.

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After this is said and done, Miami will bring nothing but a warm body to the ACC. Anyone think the ACC will kick out Miami sooner or later and come expansion time they'll replace them and whoever else they lose to the SEC?

I think this is a definite possibility, based on the severity of the penalties.

It is time the NCAA is torn down and rebuilt from scratch, there are too many rules, and everything is too hard to enforce. Look over the priorities find the rules that are most important and start from there. There is just too much corruption right now and nothing short of starting from scratch can fix this.

You are very correct Tank. Sometimes it takes a bad car accident at an intersection to finally put a traffic light there. (Essentially, something bad must happen for change to occur)

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It is time the NCAA is torn down and rebuilt from scratch, there are too many rules, and everything is too hard to enforce. Look over the priorities find the rules that are most important and start from there. There is just too much corruption right now and nothing short of starting from scratch can fix this.

Either that or end this charade that major division one sports are actually amateur.

The amount of money going around, the way the sport is promoted, why these kids are being brought in, nothing about that is the least bit amateur.

My personal suggestion would be to have the school simply sell the naming rights to the booster program(s) and basically just have them run the program as a pro team. Athletes would be allowed to be paid, have contact with agents and the option to attend classes at the University although it would not be required.

That or stop bringing in kids simply because they can play football or basketball with a complete disregard to their academic ability. That's the root of the problem here and as long as that exists, your always going to have rapant corruption. The temptation to cheat is just far too great when we're dealing with people that are this talented. That would effectively turn every school into an Army or Navy where the players are in fact coming from the general student population and aren't simply hired guns. People probably wouldn't want that.

They're trying to play it both ways. They want all the pros of amateur athletics and pro athletics. You have to choose. Can't have it both ways and if an when the NCAA goes before congress that's what they are probably going to tell them.

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Not D1 but I figured this should be posted: Bense Announces Plans for Student Life Enhancements, Including Football

Here's a shot of the helmets they had on display at the post announcement press conference. It's not the best quality. The left one features the UWF pulled from this logo and the one on the right features just the argonaut's head.

argo_logo1.jpg

It still has to make it past a student vote or the University finding a donor willing to donate A LOT but the student route will probably be the route they go and it's smart to announce the plan to add and then present the students with a proposition to raise tuition than to get them to vote without really giving them a vision of the end product.

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Not D1 but I figured this should be posted: Bense Announces Plans for Student Life Enhancements, Including Football

Here's a shot of the helmets they had on display at the post announcement press conference. It's not the best quality. The left one features the UWF pulled from this logo and the one on the right features just the argonaut's head.

argo_logo1.jpg

It still has to make it past a student vote but it's smart to announce the plan to add and then present the students with a proposition to raise tuition than to get them to vote without really giving them a vision of the end product.

They should get a teal helmet. Every team that's starting a football program is using white helmets.

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I think (HOPE) those were just throw together for the PC. I could see them going with a blue helmet and blue home uniforms with green alternates.

Here's a better shot that both: 1) proves me wrong on the logo, and 2) makes me really, really hope they don't' stick with these.

f3plr.jpg

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