Gothamite

North American Pro Soccer 2018

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There's so many more reasons beyond "get around some egos" that keep it from being a realistic system for this part of the world. Can someone explain why pro/rel is better than the current system? What does it achieve for the sport that the current system doesn't? 

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20 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

With the transfer season opening he needs to get in place pretty quick, especially since he'll be trying to decide if he can or wants to keep Balotelli ahead of the season. 

 

This is basically the only compelling reason I can see for switching to the winter calendar.

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8 minutes ago, Digby said:

 

This is basically the only compelling reason I can see for switching to the winter calendar.

I think if MLS were to do that they'd have to scrap their salary cap rules to allow for the bigger names to come over in their prime. Otherwise they'll be even further behind the other soccer leagues, let alone dealing with NCAA and the NFL.

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2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

There's so many more reasons beyond "get around some egos" that keep it from being a realistic system for this part of the world. Can someone explain why pro/rel is better than the current system? What does it achieve for the sport that the current system doesn't? 

 

20130323_jla_ax5_540.0.jpg

 

Because some association football fans think that emulating all of the traditions of the European game will make fans of European teams take their MLS squads seriously. That's why we've got ultras (ugh), pro-rel stans, and anti-salary cap advocates.

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This thread is littered with posts that explain the reasons as to why it won't/can't work in North America. 

 

Everyone loves a Cinderella story. I get that. Who wouldn't want to see bum-:censored:-nowhere FC get promoted from the 4th division all the way up to MLS? But this is real life and real business. 

 

The thing that makes me laugh is the fact that those Cinderella stories are available. With this sport. In this continent. Watch the Open Cup.

Hell, the Canadian Championship opened up a bit more this year (and will continue to do so with the addition of the CPL.). 

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2 minutes ago, mr.negative15 said:

This thread is littered with posts that explain the reasons as to why it won't/can't work in North America. 

 

Everyone loves a Cinderella story. I get that. Who wouldn't want to see bum-:censored:-nowhere FC get promoted from the 4th division all the way up to MLS? But this is real life and real business. 

 

The thing that makes me laugh is the fact that those Cinderella stories are available. With this sport. In this continent. Watch the Open Cup.

Hell, the Canadian Championship opened up a bit more this year (and will continue to do so with the addition of the CPL.). 

When Bum-F FC can't make salary though because the big sponsors they expected don't jump on board they'll be relegated at best, or insolvent and defunct at worst.

13 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

20130323_jla_ax5_540.0.jpg

 

Because some association football fans think that emulating all of the traditions of the European game will make fans of European teams take their MLS squads seriously. That's why we've got ultras (ugh), pro-rel stans, and anti-salary cap advocates.

If they get rid of the salary cap, expect more teams to start moving around. If I can make more money in San Diego to pay my players and get in better players instead of playing in Corpus Christi, I'm gone! 

 

We also don't think of teams like Richmond Kickers, who are content to play in the league where they are because they know their options for playing the next step up aren't that good. 

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Expenses play a huge part as to why pro/rel wouldn't work in America. Travel would be a big problem. A small town team from Walla Walla wouldn't be able to afford to fly cross country to Boston. Even a drive from New Orleans to El Paso is pretty far. Travel is much easier for England and much of Europe as the countries are small and more concentrated.

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11 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

Hi, municipal leader, we want you to shell out millions of dollars to build a soccer specific stadium for a top level soccer team.  Only there is a decent chance it will not be a top level soccer team at some point, and why did you just slam the door in my face?

 

There are both sides on a coin.

Just because promotion/relegation doesn't work in most North American leagues is because it's never been done to a European model before?

 

There would have to be strict guidelines.

You can't keep growing the MLS without it becoming a up/down league.

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The only way pro/rel would work here would be to have a closed system within the MLS itself. 

 

But even then, imagine trying to sell that  idea to half of the MLS clubs that they should be demoted to a “second division” status in order to achieve pro/rel system. 

 

I’d imagine they’d put up a fight against it. 

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7 hours ago, Dilbert said:

Expenses play a huge part as to why pro/rel wouldn't work in America. Travel would be a big problem. A small town team from Walla Walla wouldn't be able to afford to fly cross country to Boston. Even a drive from New Orleans to El Paso is pretty far. Travel is much easier for England and much of Europe as the countries are small and more concentrated.

Travel is nuts in the US compared to what the European leagues have to deal with. There are 358 miles between San Jose and the Galaxy's stadiums, which is thought of as a relatively close, in-state rivalry. The longest distance between Premier League teams this season was 354 miles. 

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You have to ask yourself: does MLS really suffer from not having promotion/relegation? I ask this seriously, because this topic comes up several times a year, and the conversations always carry a certain tone, as if MLS is lesser-than because it doesn't have promotion/relegation. But why would it make a difference? 

 

I mean, I really enjoy the league in its current form. I'm not saying it wouldn't be novel to incorporate the system as it's played in Europe, but I don't think the MLS is devoid of intrigue without it. 

 

 

 

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No, I don’t think it suffers at all. 

 

There’s a certain brand of snob who refuses to give the league a chance, but I’m not sure they really would anyway. 

 

Given the instability inherent in that system, the risks of pro/rel far, far outweigh any benefit it could bring. 

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So DC United had a 3-0 lead at halftime against Toronto tonight... Final score ended up being 4-4 ?

 

Guess they're determined to be the exact opposite of the Capitals in 2018

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4 hours ago, tigers said:

 

There are both sides on a coin.

Just because promotion/relegation doesn't work in most North American leagues is because it's never been done to a European model before?

 

Europe doesn't have a tradition of taxpayer-funded stadia.  We do.  We also have a tradition of non-top level stadia being valued a lot less than top level stadia, which is problematic when you are spending taxpayer money.

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Here is an interesting article that appeared on the Sacramento Bee's website regarding The Republic, MLS, and a FOIA request for the text messages of city officials relating to that situation.  Since it's The Bee, take it for what it is.  The interesting thing I gleaned from the article is the speculation that Precourt could move the Crew to Sacramento should he not be able to secure a stadium in Austin.  Frankly, if there's any truth to that I wouldn't want that scenario or an alternative of Precourt as the lead investor should he sell the Crew to local interests.

 

Again, it's The Bee so take it with a grain of salt just thought it was interesting.

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The primary reason pro/rel doesn't exist in the US is because we didn't start out with one. Even our baseball league, which is the oldest league in the country, started out as a group of businessmen forming a league and all are members. There was no 'let's vote out this team at the bottom of the standings and promote someone else in their place'. They wanted stability over the long term. Year to year.

 

 

The best way to explain why pro/rel will not work in the U.S. is to try and imagine EUROPE having pro/rel continent-wide. Imagine there were 20-30 'UEFA Champions League' teams all playing in one league spanning the UK to Ukraine. And the bottom three get relegated and top three..... yeah. Good luck figuring out which three of all those countries get promoted each year. And then making sure there's an open spot in that country to take a team that drops down, but not maybe a team that is also moving up at the same time.

 

Imagine if Chelsea, Porto, and Leverkusen all dropped one season and had to be replaced by Feyerenoord, Dyanmo Kiev, and Celtic? Who moves where? One league will just have one less team jumping from 3 to 2 because another team fell from 1 to 2 for that specific country's league?

 

The US is like Europe. And has less than 30 major teams spanning a huge territory. To the point we have three teams from another country participating in our league. A country with even worse travel issues. If the US gets up to 200 major teams all succeeding year to year, maybe we can talk about pro/rel. Until then, stop planning to kneecap the few major teams we do have.

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6 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

The primary reason pro/rel doesn't exist in the US is because we didn't start out with one. Even our baseball league, which is the oldest league in the country, started out as a group of businessmen forming a league and all are members. There was no 'let's vote out this team at the bottom of the standings and promote someone else in their place'. They wanted stability over the long term. Year to year.

 

 

The best way to explain why pro/rel will not work in the U.S. is to try and imagine EUROPE having pro/rel continent-wide. Imagine there were 20-30 'UEFA Champions League' teams all playing in one league spanning the UK to Ukraine. And the bottom three get relegated and top three..... yeah. Good luck figuring out which three of all those countries get promoted each year. And then making sure there's an open spot in that country to take a team that drops down, but not maybe a team that is also moving up at the same time.

 

Imagine if Chelsea, Porto, and Leverkusen all dropped one season and had to be replaced by Feyerenoord, Dyanmo Kiev, and Celtic? Who moves where? One league will just have one less team jumping from 3 to 2 because another team fell from 1 to 2 for that specific country's league?

 

The US is like Europe. And has less than 30 major teams spanning a huge territory. To the point we have three teams from another country participating in our league. A country with even worse travel issues. If the US gets up to 200 major teams all succeeding year to year, maybe we can talk about pro/rel. Until then, stop planning to kneecap the few major teams we do have.

The UEFA Nations League will start doing this starting in the fall. only  will be national teams instead of clubs.

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14 hours ago, tigers said:

There would have to be strict guidelines.

You can't keep growing the MLS without it becoming a up/down league.

 

lol.

I'm sorry man, this really isn't my style, but how the hell can you possibly say that just 2 weeks after an expansion team was announced, for next year no less.

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17 hours ago, tigers said:

There would have to be strict guidelines.

You can't keep growing the MLS without it becoming a up/down league.

The people that run North American leagues operate differently than in Europe and Asia, the same as American run companies run differently than European countries. We don't have to look the same as them just because they sell the same products as us. 

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can we please just make pro/reg arguements a megathread, just like the relocation outpost.

 

 

I'm tired of having this argument year after year after year

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