leopard88

Deflategate -- Patriots Busted

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I actually agree with your proposed punishment. It's severe enough to reflect their status as repeat offenders, but not a complete overreaction.

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You went on about intent. So what's the intent of the message? EVERYONE CHEATS. Which is true. Brad Johnson admitted to paying a ballboy to scuff up some balls just the way he liked them prior to Super Bowl XXXVII. Aaron Rodgers admitted that he adjusts the amount of air in the footballs he handles, and that sometimes the refs don't catch it. The Carolina Panthers heat their footballs up.

So are we going to strip the Panthers of their 2014 NFC South title (not that it's a particularly prestigious accomplishment)? Are we going to strip the Bucs of their Super Bowl XXXVII victory? What about that cheater Aaron Rodgers? When are we going to hold him accountable?

Everyone cheats dude. And manipulating footballs, sometimes in ways that make them "illegal," is a very, very common practice. We talked about this story when it first broke on a podcast I do. Still MIGHTY/Zach's a co-host of it. When I asked why no other team noticed this in the 15 years this was potentially going on one possibility he put forth was that because everyone does it no one wanted to be the guy to blow the whistle on the Pats doing it. Which makes it even more of a non-issue if true.

This is what I try to explain to people. Nobody seems to understand. They just want heads to roll

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What I am saying is that you're (a general "you") wasting your time if you want me to feel even the tiniest bit of outrage or moral indignation over this when the sport of football has so much more that's worth being outraged over. Especially when the game in question wasn't even close. That's as concise as I'm capable of making my point at the moment.

...then why keep posting in the thread, man? :lol:

I see your point. I think we've all seen your point. I don't know what else you're trying to get here, my friend haha.

---

As for punishment: Revoke the franchise or move it to Quebec! Wait, wrong thread.

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I actually agree with your proposed punishment. It's severe enough to reflect their status as repeat offenders, but not a complete overreaction.

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What I am saying is that you're (a general "you") wasting your time if you want me to feel even the tiniest bit of outrage or moral indignation over this when the sport of football has so much more that's worth being outraged over. Especially when the game in question wasn't even close. That's as concise as I'm capable of making my point at the moment.

...then why keep posting in the thread, man? :lol:

I see your point. I think we've all seen your point. I don't know what else you're trying to get here, my friend haha.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MuD6HKSVzo

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I think you're getting a little carried away with the overall landscape of the NFL, Mike.

At least on here, you're not going to get much support for the actions of Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, Aaron Hernandez, Michael Vick, etc. But off-field problems aren't just in the NFL....every sports league has their knuckleheads and A-holes. We're going to always have our Slava Voynov's and Greg Hardy's in sports.

However, as sports fans, we all go into each game expecting a high level of competitive fairness. Now the talent won't always be comparable, but just about everything else on the playing surface and in the venue (crowd bias aside, obviously) is expected to be the same. Most fans can tolerate winning or losing when a contest is played in equal conditions. When it's discovered that one of the teams is trying to gain an advantage and breaking the rules/guidelines set out, sports fans will be more concerned about cheating in the game than spousal/child abuse away from the game. Sports fans feel that their entertainment was jeopardized and that complete fairness was lacking.

No one will argue that under-inflated footballs is more important than killing people/animals or beating their wife. However, to the sports-viewer in us, on-field cheating is a bigger deal than these players committing crimes off the field. And while some have gone overboard on what punishment should be administered, there is reason to at least feel that a now-repeat offender in on-field cheating should be given a stiffer punishment than simply fining billionaire owners and multi-millionaire players, firing/suspending seasonal employees that are nobodies on the team, and suspending folks that aren't players or coaches. After all, there is a reason why the NFL established rules/guidelines for ball inflation...there is a marginal degree of gaining an advantage. And if there are multiple teams breaking this rule, they should get a similar punishment.

Now, some blame goes to the NFL for allowing the opportunity for this situation to occur, but most of the blame should go towards the team...win as a team, lose as a team, get punished as a team. If the Falcons' coaches and players get punished (by the lost draft pick in the 2016 Draft) for something they had no control over, I don't see why the Patriots shouldn't get a similar punishment.

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Yeah, there's NO WAY anyone gets suspended for this, no matter how warranted it may be. The NFL knows better not to :censored: where they eat.

Is there anything even remotely likable about these Patriots championship teams? I have yet to find even a single example of endearment in at least ten years.

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No one will argue that under-inflated footballs is more important than killing people/animals or beating their wife. However, to the sports-viewer in us, on-field cheating is a bigger deal than these players committing crimes off the field.

You have a bad habit of assuming your experiences as a fan reflect everyone else's. I can say that this isn't true as far as I'm concerned. On-field cheating? In a game the team in question won easily anyway? I'm not seeing that as a bigger deal then Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson's crimes. Now you could call me a bad "sports-viewer" for that, but you wouldn't be right.

As for everything else? It seems like something you really, really wanted to get out. I'm no stranger to long-winded posts, but I'll break it down simply here. I agree that the Pats should be punished. I don't, however, feel outraged or wronged over what they did. Nor do I feel I should feel outraged or wronged.

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I'd say the bigger problem is the lack of control at the NFL level

"It's society's fault" as an excuse is neither novel nor compelling.

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Exponent, the firm that conducted the investigation also concluded in a prior investigation, among other things, that secondhand smoke does not cause cancer.

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More like 2 ball guys, who by their texts seem like some real geniuses, were probably busted (ie: 50.01% chance). There appears to be little if any evidence the Patriots organization or Tom Brady did anything wrong.

You're a damned fool if you believe that Tom Brady didn't have a part in this.

Now he's at the top of the food chain (on the field-wise), but I don't think Belichick cared about the size or weight of the balls. He's got so much more to worry about. I don't think the coaching staff really has time for fiddling around with the weight and size of the balls.

However, the guy that handles the ball for every play would definitely care, and he would have the most input and final word on the balls. No way in hell were these two ball-boys going renegade and deflating the balls on their own. They're easily-replaceable people if the star quarterback isn't liking their work. They're also easy to pin things on should the blame need to be placed somewhere. (They're also easy to bribe in order to take the blame, as well.)

These two ball-boys are going to be fired. No point in suspending part-time/seasonal employees.

Tom Brady will be fined and probably should be suspended for a game or two. Don't think he'll miss any games, though.

Belichick may be fined, at most, but that won't matter much. He shouldn't miss games. The players and/or owner will pick up his fine.

The Patriots' president and/or GM should be fined. Suspending them from games is a pointless consequence...not much they do between training camp and the end of the season.

Kraft should be fined and indefinitely suspended from whatever committees he's a part of.

If the league is serious about being stricter, here's their chance to prove to the NFLPA that no one is exempt from tougher punishment.

Goodell has to drop hammer here to confound public perception of his weakness regarding New England.

The ball handlers? Suspended for a year as a token gesture, but essentially fired.

Brady? $500,000 fine and an 8-game suspension.

Belichick shouldn't, and won't, be disciplined.

The Patriots organization gets hit with a $500,000 fine, and loss of its 1st round draft pick in 2016.

The appeals process will whack those by anywhere from a third to half of that level of severity, and Goodell's integrity is preserved.

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Aaron Rodgers admits he overinflates his game day footballs. Jerry Rice wore stickem on his hands/gloves. Zimmerman and many offensive linemen put vasoline on their arms. The air pressure of the balls had no impact on the Colts game...the Pats even scored more points when the balls were replaced. You can't suspend Belichick or the owner since the report said they had no knowledge of what was going on. Heck, I'm not even sure you can suspend Brady when the report doesn't clearly say he gave the order.

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I say death penalty for Tom Brady. Completely warranted in situations such as this. Belichick should also be forced to coach the Raiders for free for the next ten years. And Kraft should have to sell the team and get a Jets tattoo on his forehead or something equally as exaggerated as the others.

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Anyone calling for an overreaction of that magnitude is being silly, but it's also silly to claim their repeated attempts at circumventing league rules (WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN NEED TO!) aren't a problem.

The solution is obvious - a third party handles the balls and both teams use the same damn ball that's always inflated to the same level. If you don't like how they feel or your hands are too small well then sorry.

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I don't care what the Patriots did. Just please don't suspend him for the first game. Nobody wants the Steelers starting the season 1-0.

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I don't care what the Patriots did. Just please don't suspend him for the first game. Nobody wants the Steelers starting the season 1-0.

Good point. Suspend him for all games against NFC teams.

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Anyone calling for an overreaction of that magnitude is being silly, but it's also silly to claim their repeated attempts at circumventing league rules (WHEN THEY DON'T EVEN NEED TO!) aren't a problem.

The solution is obvious - a third party handles the balls and both teams use the same damn ball that's always inflated to the same level. If you don't like how they feel or your hands are too small well then sorry.

I always thought that, too. I dislike the Patriots as much as anybody, but I think 1) the cheating (and it was cheating) was stupidly minor and would have almost no impact on the game; and 2) it's absurd that the league gives teams balls and allows it to happen. Don't give teams the balls to alter them but tell teams they're not allowed to alter them. Some QB's like balls scuffed? Tough :censored:. Play with the ball the league gives you, like everybody else. It's just like in baseball with some players getting up in arms about attempts to speed up the game. No, players wouldn't bat worse if they weren't allowed to step out of the box and walk around between pitches. They only do so because the league allows it.

That being said, the Patriots have an established history of cheating, so something needs to be done here. Fine the organization half a mil and take away their first round draft pick next year. It might be a little harsh, but set a precedent that if you cheat and embarrass the league, you will be punished.

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What makes me sick: the use of the phrase "integrity of the game." If the Shield was so into integrity, it would disassociate with EACH and EVERY gambling site, line, book, and fantasy organization.

Come on, do we really believe that the sport is truly on the up and up, each and every game, every play?

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Shouldn't there be some kind of punishment if Brady lied about having any knowledge of the balls be doctored? If it is a common practice, shouldn't he have fessed up to it? I agree that it is somewhat lame of an infraction but Brady has probably been caught in a lie. Just my $.02.

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I'd say the bigger problem is the lack of control at the NFL level

"It's society's fault" as an excuse is neither novel nor compelling.

Except this isn't a "society's fault" issue. The NFL isn't society. And if the entire league is doing something (particularly in this case when it's something the league was supposed to be monitoring), then it's on the league. That or it's not really wrong since everyone was doing it. Or so I've been told for years by people defending PED usage in football and every other sport.

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