MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[DEAD!]

9 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

Toronto and Vancouver are notable exceptions, which built up more than they built out (though the GTA sprawls quite a bit as well). 

 

Toronto's skyline has drastically changed over the past 20 years. You see tall condos go up in the other burrows and suburbs,  like Mississauga, as well. But the other suburbs are still sprawling like crazy. Unfortunately we have trouble trying to keep up with the transportation infrastructure.

[MJWalker45]

5 hours ago, who do you think said:

 

With a regional population of (not even) 2.5 million expected to support all of it, a high number of them being off-hours hospo workers.

 

I think they're counting on the out of towners to come in and watch. It works well for football, ideally, but I can't see a setup that requires fans of the visiting team to help fill the ballpark. In Arizona in February, it works because it's spring training baseball and people are avoiding the cold weather. But for a sport that runs during the hottest parts of the year that's a lot harder to do on a daily basis as opposed to a weekly basis. 

[OnWis97]

34 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I think they're counting on the out of towners to come in and watch. It works well for football, ideally, but I can't see a setup that requires fans of the visiting team to help fill the ballpark. In Arizona in February, it works because it's spring training baseball and people are avoiding the cold weather. But for a sport that runs during the hottest parts of the year that's a lot harder to do on a daily basis as opposed to a weekly basis. 

Agreed. I'm not a "Vegas guy."  Been there once (for Wisconsin at UNLV) and it wasn't my kind of travel spot.

That said, if I was, going for a Vikings game or making a long weekend for a Thursday Wild game in February?  Sure.  Hitting Vegas to see the Twins in July?  No.

[habsfan1]

So Las Vegas is going to take a 2nd franchise from Oakland? The Las Vegas Athletics is a terrible sounding name, just like the Las Vegas Raiders.

 

I know that they just slapped the Raiders name on whichever city would host Oakland's team because the NFL or whoever didn't want to retire that identity. I just don't agree with that decision because there should be better care given to sports brands. The Golden Knights went out of their way to make a stunningly attractive grey jersey and branded every aspect of the franchise to make it stand out and connect with Vegas scenery, including consistent names with their minor league affiliate. The NFL did the total opposite.

 

They should do like the OKC Thunder did and get their own name so that the Sonics could use the name, if they ever return. Same for Oakland, if they're forced to relocate the Athletics. OKC's logo is awful, but at least they got the name part right.

[LMU]

21 minutes ago, habsfan1 said:

So Las Vegas is going to take a 2nd franchise from Oakland? The Las Vaegas Athletics is a terrible sounding name, just like the Las Vegas Raiders.

 

I know that they just slapped the Raiders name on whichever city would host Oakland's team because the NFL or whoever didn't want to retire that identity. I just don't agree with that decision because there should be better care given to sports brands. The Golden Knights went own of their way to make a stunningly attractive grey jersey and branded every aspect of the franchise to make it stand out and connect with Vegas scenery, including consistent names with their minor league affiliate. The NFL did the total opposite.

 

They should do like the OKC Thunder did and get their own name so that the Sonics could use the name, if they ever return. Same for Oakland, if they're forced to relocate the Athletics. OKC's logo is awful, but at least they got the name part right.

Philadelphia and Kansas City would like to have a word.

[DustDevil61]

6 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

I think they're counting on the out of towners to come in and watch. It works well for football, ideally, but I can't see a setup that requires fans of the visiting team to help fill the ballpark. In Arizona in February, it works because it's spring training baseball and people are avoiding the cold weather. But for a sport that runs during the hottest parts of the year that's a lot harder to do on a daily basis as opposed to a weekly basis. 

That works for the NFL, given the low number of games in a season, that most Raiders fans still hail from nearby California, and that, except for the first month or so of the season, the NFL season plays during the cooler months. 
 

The Golden Knights, being the first team in town, have also carved out their spot on the market and have at least 41 home games to fill during the coolest time of the year.

 

I’m not sure that MLB, with at least 81 home games during the heat of the summer, would be the ideal Vegas getaway for baseball fans.

 

 

[ManillaToad]

1 hour ago, habsfan1 said:

So Las Vegas is going to take a 2nd franchise from Oakland? The Las Vegas Athletics is a terrible sounding name, just like the Las Vegas Raiders.

 

I know that they just slapped the Raiders name on whichever city would host Oakland's team because the NFL or whoever didn't want to retire that identity. I just don't agree with that decision because there should be better care given to sports brands. The Golden Knights went out of their way to make a stunningly attractive grey jersey and branded every aspect of the franchise to make it stand out and connect with Vegas scenery, including consistent names with their minor league affiliate. The NFL did the total opposite.

 

They should do like the OKC Thunder did and get their own name so that the Sonics could use the name, if they ever return. Same for Oakland, if they're forced to relocate the Athletics. OKC's logo is awful, but at least they got the name part right.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but the A's have been the A's for 120 years across 3 cities.

[habsfan1]

After looking it up, Philadelphia is their original location. The Philly Athletics does have a decent ring to it, similar to Oakland A's. Kansas City Athletics is a meh name and a short-lived experiment. Royals has a background history that belongs to KC.

 

Because the change was made decades ago, I feel like it works for them. They made it work. I wasn't aware about Philly & KC, until it was pointed out.

 

Vegas being a major pro sports market is as new as you can get. That's why I prefer they come up with a nice modern name fitting for Las Vegas.

[Wings]

Maybe that creepy slimeball Sheldon Aldeson can help the A's build a new domed stadium in the desert. Oh wait, he's dead. 

[Red Comet]

No, they should keep the Athletics name. Also, IIRC the only reason the Supersonics name didn't move to Oklahoma City with the team is because the City of Seattle made a similar agreement to what the City of Cleveland made with Art Modell except apparently the Thunder would hold all the history until the Sonics return to Seattle. Considering that Oakland didn't attempt to do that with Mark Davis vis a vis the Raiders, there is no way that Oakland would do that for the A's. 

[sky1324]

I'm split on keeping the name - on the one hand, it's a legacy team and the name is literally applicable to any city, but on the other hand, a Montreal baseball not named the Expos is heresy. I also generally prefer city-specific branding, but the A's, like the Raiders, are waaaaay past the point of changing the name being a consideration (with the exception of Montreal).

[BBTV]

31 minutes ago, QCS said:

I'm split on keeping the name - on the one hand, it's a legacy team and the name is literally applicable to any city, but on the other hand, a Montreal baseball not named the Expos is heresy. I also generally prefer city-specific branding, but the A's, like the Raiders, are waaaaay past the point of changing the name being a consideration (with the exception of Montreal).

 

The Expos didn't exactly have Browns-level of support prior to being sold to MLB and eventually moving.  I know there's a lot behind the eventual failure of the Expos that goes beyond fan support, but this doesn't strike me as one of those situations where it has to be the original name if a team comes back.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:33 PM, habsfan1 said:

I wasn't aware about Philly & KC, until it was pointed out.

 

The A's have worn throwback uniforms of both their Philadelphia and Kansas City years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love seeing these throwbacks, and other similar ones both in baseball, such as the Nationals' Expos uniforms and the Orioles' Browns uniforms, and in other sports, such as the Clippers' Buffalo Braves uniforms, the Titans' Houston Oilers uniforms, and the Hurricanes' Hartford Whalers uniforms.  The most important thing about these sorts of throwbacks is the educational opportunity.  There are plenty of fans who find out about a team's history through these events.

[kolob]

Las Vegas Athletics sounds clumsy, but shorten it to what I’m sure locals will call them — Vegas A’s — and I’m on board.

[GDAWG]

Nice to see Las Vegas is continuing it's delusions of grandeur when it comes to pro sports.

[DnBronc]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

Nice to see Las Vegas is continuing it's delusions of grandeur when it comes to pro sports.

 

That hockey team probably won't get any support when it starts losing. We'll see how long it stays there.

[Ridleylash]

2 hours ago, DnBronc said:

That hockey team probably won't get any support when it starts losing. We'll see how long it stays there.

I'd be more concerned with the Raiders, honestly. The Golden Knights got to be the first child and happened to come in right at a very important time for locals, so the city has a stronger connection to them then the Raiders, who from what I've seen haven't had the locals enthusiastic at all. If any of the three potential teams is the least likely to move, it'd be the Knights.

 

The Raiders have a history of bouncing from city to city between Oakland and LA. Them bouncing to Vegas and then bouncing somewhere else isn't exactly unfathomable.

[Red Wolf]

6 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

I'd be more concerned with the Raiders, honestly. The Golden Knights got to be the first child and happened to come in right at a very important time for locals, so the city has a stronger connection to them then the Raiders, who from what I've seen haven't had the locals enthusiastic at all. If any of the three potential teams is the least likely to move, it'd be the Knights.

 

The Raiders have a history of bouncing from city to city between Oakland and LA. Them bouncing to Vegas and then bouncing somewhere else isn't exactly unfathomable.

 

The difference is that the Raiders moved the other times because of stadium issues. They were dissatisfied with the situation in Oakland, then the situation in Los Angeles, and then again in Oakland. In Las Vegas they've finally gotten their fancy new stadium. If they had moved there with the promise of a new stadium while stalling at Sam Boyd Stadium, then they would be a threat to move again.

[Red Comet]

We haven't even seen how Las Vegas will truly support the Raiders yet as the pandemic sabotaged their debut season there. 

 

Why the hell are people thinking that they can support the A's and now an NBA team?  

[tp49]

I wouldn't be concerned about the Raiders in Las Vegas at all.  Ever been on The Strip on a football Sunday?  Nearly everyone walking around is wearing some sort of NFL gear.  The NFL is more conducive to tourism than any of the other major sports and fanbases tend to travel well.  Eight to nine home games a year means that the games are more of an event or tourist attraction, and the nature of Las Vegas being what it is this is the only time it can honestly be said that a team can thrive without huge local support.  Further, the large group of Raider fans still living in the Los Angeles area, and traveled well to Oakland will probably travel to Las Vegas in a similar or greater fashion.  All of this is before we even start talking about locals.  The flashy new stadium walking distance from The Strip also doesn't hurt.