MLB Offseason 2021: Hot Stoves, Bat Flips, & Bubbleball

[dont care]

1 hour ago, goalieboy82 said:

someone who need the fans in the seats.

 

Have you not seen how old and fat they are. Bonds probably can’t even jog around the bases anymore, and Clemens couldn’t throw a slow pitch softball.

[goalieboy82]

7 minutes ago, dont care said:

Have you not seen how old and fat they are. Bonds probably can’t even jog around the bases anymore, and Clemens couldn’t throw a slow pitch softball.

no have have not.  

 

[tp49]

10 hours ago, DEAD! said:

That is sort of my feeling (strictly sticking with baseball) 

  Had good stats and has a couple of rings, but I did not view him as high of regard as Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, John Smoltz , Randy Johnson  or Tom Glavine. I feel like Curt was best known for a bloody sock. 

Oh... and I am sure the people of Long Rhode Island would like to recoup some money from  Curt 

FTFY

I agree with you, outside of his strikeout total nothing about Schilling screams Hall of Famer to me.  Hall of Very Good, sure but not HOF.

 

3 hours ago, goalieboy82 said:

if Barry Bonds (and Roger Clemens) don't get into the Hall of Fame next year, would they both comeback for a game or two in order to be eligible again or would they (or one of them) take the BBWAA to court saying they colluded in keeping them out.

They'll leave it up to the Veteran's Committee to decide.  They could sue , but I don't think they'd have much of a case and it would backfire greatly against them in the court of public opinion.

[DEAD!]

54 minutes ago, tp49 said:

FTFY

Yeah ... What the hell was I thinking? Can Long Island become a state someday?

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, tp49 said:

FTFYI agree with you, outside of his strikeout total nothing about Schilling screams Hall of Famer to me.  Hall of Very Good, sure but not HOF.at

 

I disagree.  He's absolutely a HOFer in my book (even though I despise him going back to his time in Phila.)

 

It's not the hall of stats, it's the hall of fame, and his role in ending one of the most famous droughts in American sports history, along with other WS in addition to being very good should normally get him in.

 

Curt Shilling is more important to baseball than Roy Halladay, and the latter is a HOFer despite no titles (or even WS appearances).  Schilling was never Cy Young material, but he was still undeniably very good, but most importantly, shined when the lights were brightest and when it mattered most.  He threw a shutout in game 6 of the 1993 WS for the Phillies, back when he was first converted to a starter.

[SFGiants58]

11 minutes ago, BBTV said:

Curt Shilling is more important to baseball than Roy Halladay, and the latter is a HOFer despite no titles (or even WS appearances).  Schilling was never Cy Young material, but he was still undeniably very good, but most importantly, shined when the lights were brightest and when it mattered most.  He threw a shutout in game 6 of the 1993 WS for the Phillies, back when he was first converted to a starter.

 

He also threw away his legacy by being pro-sedition and for calling for the lynching of journalists. He should be persona non-grata, regarded with the same disdain as Mel Hall and Chad Curtis.

 

This is the perfect "character clause" case. It goes beyond "but he beat his wife" and "he used steroids." It's much more than that.

[DEAD!]

24 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

I disagree.  He's absolutely a HOFer in my book (even though I despise him going back to his time in Phila.)

 

It's not the hall of stats, it's the hall of fame, and his role in ending one of the most famous droughts in American sports history, along with other WS in addition to being very good should normally get him in.

 

Curt Shilling is more important to baseball than Roy Halladay, and the latter is a HOFer despite no titles (or even WS appearances).  Schilling was never Cy Young material, but he was still undeniably very good, but most importantly, shined when the lights were brightest and when it mattered most.  He threw a shutout in game 6 of the 1993 WS for the Phillies, back when he was first converted to a starter.

Well, Joe Carter should have been in the Hall of Fame then. 

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

He also threw away his legacy by being pro-sedition and for calling for the lynching of journalists. He should be persona non-grata, regarded with the same disdain as Mel Hall and Chad Curtis.

 

This is the perfect "character clause" case. It goes beyond "but he beat his wife" and "he used steroids." It's much more than that.

 

Like I said, I despise him, and can understand arguments on both sides of the character clause.  Strictly between the lines, I think he's a HOFer.  

 

52 minutes ago, DEAD! said:

Well, Joe Carter should have been in the Hall of Fame then. 

 

Schilling stepped it up consistently on the biggest stage, and he was on that stage in multiple cities spanning over a decade.  I'd put him in over a guy that won 300 games when none of them really mattered.

[The_Admiral]

Look, who hasn't wanted to kill a journalist in the last two years. 

[DEAD!]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

Look, who hasn't wanted to kill a journalist in the last two years. 

Aubrey Huff?

[Cujo]

14 hours ago, DEAD! said:

 feel like Curt was best known for a bloody sock. 

 

The more and more we get to know Schilling's true self, the more confident i am that he took a ketchup packet to his sock

[SFGiants58]

1 hour ago, DEAD! said:

Aubrey Huff?

 

The Giants are thankfully performing the ol' damnatio memoriae of Huff. He wasn't invited to the 2010 reunion and I doubt he's gonna get invited to 2012. I don't expect the team to photoshop him out of photos or cut him out of 2010 footage, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Marlins93]

I'm guilty of this as much as anyone, but it's pretty surprising how much time and energy baseball fans devote to debating Hall of Fame merits. For the longest time, whether or not Pete Rose belongs in the HOF has been the conversation that wouldn't go away. And it still hasn't. And now we are consuming ourselves with weighing domestic violence, PEDs, and social media support for sedition. I don't know where I'm going with this, but these ongoing discussions make me depreciate the importance that a HOF plaque plays in memorializing greatness and preserving the history and the legacy of the game. I've visited Cooperstown several times and have always found the plaque gallery to be the least engaging part of the experience. The story that the artifacts and other ephemera throughout the museum tell is much more compelling.

 

For me, personally, enshrining far-less-than-worthy talents like Harold Baines (as a result of Jerry Reinsdorf's overzealous arm-twisting) has done enough irreparable damage to the Hall's prestige already. The gallery isn't telling the story of the game, but rather that politics surrounding it.

[Sport]

Five Things

1. nobody is entitled to enshrinement in the baseball hall of fame even if they have a case. Billions of us will live and die without achieving a place in the Baseball Hall of Fame. It's not the law that they have to put Curt Schilling in just because he reached X number of strikeouts. 

 

2. They have a character clause and voters can decide how they'd like consider that clause and nobody made Curt Schilling behave the way he behaves. He did this to himself. If he pitched well enough to earn a place, but then behaved like my drunk uncle then he didn't do all that's required to earn a place in the hall of fame per the rules. 

 

3. RE: "What kind of precedent does this set?" It sets the precedent that if you're a piece of s*** then don't be surprised when people decide not to award you with an extracurricular honor. 

 

4. RE: "what about Ty Cobb?" Ty Cobb had more hits than anybody at the time of his enshrinement and yeah he was a racist moron, but I think it's okay to evolve how we consider induction to this baseball museum to where we don't give awards to people who objectively suck. 

 

5. Most Important - Curt Schilling is a very stupid a$$hole and keeping him out is very very funny. 

[SFGiants58]

That reminds me, I'm all for keeping Pete Rose out because he confessed to statutory rape. That's worse than the betting, IMHO.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Baseball being both completely up its ass and trying to destroy itself at the same time is so fun to me.

[ManillaToad]

On 1/27/2021 at 12:43 AM, Lana_del_Bae said:

Anyways, I don't have a problem with him being inducted into a HoF that includes noted PoS Ty Cobb

Quote

4. RE: "what about Ty Cobb?" Ty Cobb had more hits than anybody at the time of his enshrinement and yeah he was a racist moron, but I think it's okay to evolve how we consider induction to this baseball museum to where we don't give awards to people who objectively suck. 

 

Please do some basic research before furthering the myth that Ty Cobb was an evil racist caricature

 

Quote

 

Cobb's legacy, which includes a large college scholarship fund for Georgia residents financed by his early investments in Coca-Cola and General Motors, has been somewhat tarnished by allegations of racism and violence, largely stemming from a couple of largely-discredited biographies that were released following his death.^[15][16] Cobb's reputation as a violent man was fanned by his first biographer, sportswriter Al Stump, whose stories about Cobb have been discredited as sensationalized, and have largely proven to be fictional.^{[17][18][19][20][21]} While he was known for often violent conflicts, he spoke favorably about black players joining the Major Leagues and was a well known philanthropist. ^[16][22][23]

 

Stories of Cobb's racial intolerance during his playing days were embellished and falsified by his biographers Al Stump and Charles Alexander.^[138] Recent research on his life has clarified a number of stories about Cobb.^[138] Five years after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, Cobb publicly supported blacks and whites playing baseball together, adding, "Certainly it is okay for them to play. I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man; in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life."^[16] Using even stronger language, Cobb told the Sporting News in 1952 that "the Negro should be accepted and not grudgingly but wholeheartedly."^[139] In 1953, black newspapers cited his praise for Brooklyn Dodgers' catcher Roy Camanella, who Cobb said was "among the all-time best catchers" in baseball.^[140] Following Campanella's accident that left him paralyzed, the Dodgers staged a tribute game where tens of thousands of spectators silently held lit matches above their heads. Cobb wrote the Dodgers owner to show appreciation "for what you did for this fine man".^[141] Cobb also stated that Willie Mays was the "only player I'd pay money to see".^[141] In the obituaries that ran in the black press following Cobb's death, he was praised for "[speaking] in favor of racial freedom in baseball".^[142]

 

 

[BBTV]

I don't know one way or the other about Ty Cobb, and I have come around to the belief that the context of the times is very important to consider when judging people, but without that context, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility"  doesn't make him sound like the most enlightened person.  But again, context matters.  100 years from now people may judge me as a murderous animal because I believed that eating animal meat was a great idea and in the future that's right up there with owning slaves as far as horrible things go.

[ManillaToad]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

I don't know one way or the other about Ty Cobb, and I have come around to the belief that the context of the times is very important to consider when judging people, but without that context, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility"  doesn't make him sound like the most enlightened person.  But again, context matters.  100 years from now people may judge me as a murderous animal because I believed that eating animal meat was a great idea and in the future that's right up there with owning slaves as far as horrible things go.

 

"Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man; in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life."

 

He is holding everyone to the same standard.

 

[Lana_del_Bae]

I don't care if he's white, black, yellow, or purple