MLB 2022 Uniform/Logo Changes

[M59]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:12 PM, WestCoastBias said:

 

It really turned out to be the perfect rebrand for them. 

 

The Commanders should have taken notes. 

The 'Ders ownership is too stupid to take notes. Plus, they know better than you. Just ask 'em.

 

[DarthBrett]

Astros wearing their navy alts at home in the playoffs for the very first time today. They had previously only worn their regular whites or the orange alts in the playoffs. 

 

 

 

 

Also, the Astros for the first time ever in the current unis wore their navy alts on the road three times towards the end of the season. They had never worn them on the road prior to this season.

 

[Sec19Row53]

7 hours ago, Carolingian Steamroller said:

 

That's really tricky. You have to get the right groups lined up and run it past them. For example, getting the Navajo nation to sign off on a brand identity with a team a thousand miles away in a different state is just making this messier.

The Blackhawks have not been forgotten about and a lot of 'Hawks fans accept that its only a matter of time before the logo changes. Then again, there's a lot of good bird head logos floating around out there so for them it will be an easy transition.

I think where the Guardians did well was leaning into familiar aesthetics. Not just the base uniforms which remained effectively unchanged but tapping into the old "Caveman" aesthetic from the 70's, the script Cleveland sign, and the baseball logo being reminiscent of the movie Major League. I expected the number font and arched "CLEVELAND" to be irksome but they've wound up looking good (or at least not distracting). Maybe they can put the headspoon back on the jersey? My only gripe is that I miss the red undershirts at home but that's specific to me and predates the name change.

So thumbs up Cleveland, you done good.

Sigh. It wasn't caveman. It wasn't Greek. It was stereotypical of the style that was indicated by the former team nickname.

[Kevin W.]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:08 PM, PlayGloria said:

Also, I can't believe the Blackhawks just keep under the radar with all of this. Their logo is almost the same as Washington's old logo. It's almost comical.

The fact that the Blackhawks' name isn't a racial slur sets them apart from Washington's former identity by a considerable margin.

[PlayGloria]

6 hours ago, Kevin W. said:

The fact that the Blackhawks' name isn't a racial slur sets them apart from Washington's former identity by a considerable margin.

 

That's totally fair. 

I guess that kind of was the point of my post. Having Native American imagery and names in and of itself isn't the issue. It's the way it was done with those two names that's the issue. Maybe the entire brand didn't need to be trashed. Maybe it just needed to be updated to honor people instead of using slurs. 

I get that it was way safer to just rebrand. I get that it made more sense to lose all NA imagery. And I don't want to see Chicago change a thing. Quite the opposite actually. I want them to do MORE to represent Native Americans the RIGHT WAY. 

Sometimes it's tough to put this stuff into text the right way and sorry to mods if the topic is stepping over the line. 

[gosioux76]

1 hour ago, PlayGloria said:

 

That's totally fair. 

I guess that kind of was the point of my post. Having Native American imagery and names in and of itself isn't the issue. It's the way it was done with those two names that's the issue. Maybe the entire brand didn't need to be trashed. Maybe it just needed to be updated to honor people instead of using slurs. 

I get that it was way safer to just rebrand. I get that it made more sense to lose all NA imagery. And I don't want to see Chicago change a thing. Quite the opposite actually. I want them to do MORE to represent Native Americans the RIGHT WAY. 

Sometimes it's tough to put this stuff into text the right way and sorry to mods if the topic is stepping over the line. 

 

No, the issue — whether you agree with it or not — is of cultural appropriation. It's about using another culture's symbols, often by accentuating stereotypes, and then assuming the people of that culture should be proud of it, usually without investigating whether that's the case.

 

Tell the University of North Dakota that the issue with the Fighting Sioux was about how they used that name. It was about much more than that.

 

We could all argue all day about whether this has become an overblown issue by the so-called "PC police," but don't undersell the issue.  

[Digby]

Seems like the Guardians rebrand was pretty successful insofar as people pretty readily switched to the new name without fuss, and they didn't botch it so badly to attract more undue attention to themselves like the other big rebrand of that moment. Of course I don't know how many people are still wearing Wahoo merch to the stadium, but from an outside perspective I don't see much to be upset about here.

 

I do think that the G-ball, the Guardians script, and the general art-deco nods are the most successful pieces of the rebrand, but that those clash badly with the fussy jagged block font (most crucially in the cap logo). I don't know that the G-ball, as much as I like it's retro whimsy, would make a good cap logo, so I don't have an easy solution. I just know I hate the pinched C and the road wordmark hurts my eyes to look at.

[-Akronite-]

8 minutes ago, Digby said:

Seems like the Guardians rebrand was pretty successful insofar as people pretty readily switched to the new name without fuss, and they didn't botch it so badly to attract more undue attention to themselves like the other big rebrand of that moment. Of course I don't know how many people are still wearing Wahoo merch to the stadium, but from an outside perspective I don't see much to be upset about here.

 

There is still a lot of Indians and Wahoo gear at the ballpark, but that will fade over time. People tend to adopt rather quickly if they actually show up to games. I remember the block C becoming prominent on fan caps and clothing faster than I anticipated (especially since everyone claimed it was boring/crappy). The Guardians gear will grow in terms of fan-share and the folks obsessed with "saving" Chief Wahoo will move on or get drowned out. Not sure we will ever see the stadium completely bereft of the old stuff, but I imagine it won't take long for it to be marginal.

[PlayGloria]

27 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

No, the issue — whether you agree with it or not — is of cultural appropriation. It's about using another culture's symbols, often by accentuating stereotypes, and then assuming the people of that culture should be proud of it, usually without investigating whether that's the case.

 

Tell the University of North Dakota that the issue with the Fighting Sioux was about how they used that name. It was about much more than that.

 

We could all argue all day about whether this has become an overblown issue by the so-called "PC police," but don't undersell the issue.  

 

Never thought of it from that angle... I definitely see where your coming from here. Thanks for giving me that perspective on it. 

 

I think that angle could lead to a slippery slope a tad. Notre Dame Fighting Irish literally does that exact thing. It reduces the "Irish" brand to a fighting leprechaun and a clover. That's just one example. 

But for the purpose of discussion, I think you nudged my opinion a bit. 

[Carolingian Steamroller]

10 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Sigh. It wasn't caveman. It wasn't Greek. It was stereotypical of the style that was indicated by the former team nickname.

 

I know. I struggled to find the right terminology and so went with what has been colloquially used on the boards.

 

And now I realize I'm praising the team for referencing an obviously bigoted font. Ugh.

[RodgersThat]

22 hours ago, DarthBrett said:

Astros wearing their navy alts at home in the playoffs for the very first time today. They had previously only worn their regular whites or the orange alts in the playoffs. 

 

 

 

 

Also, the Astros for the first time ever in the current unis wore their navy alts on the road three times towards the end of the season. They had never worn them on the road prior to this season.

 

I've noticed this, as well. After they wore the navy alts on the road several weeks ago, I did some digging. I've read somewhere that the navy alts are Framber's favorite jerseys

[fouhy12]

6 hours ago, PlayGloria said:

 

Never thought of it from that angle... I definitely see where your coming from here. Thanks for giving me that perspective on it. 

 

I think that angle could lead to a slippery slope a tad. Notre Dame Fighting Irish literally does that exact thing. It reduces the "Irish" brand to a fighting leprechaun and a clover. That's just one example. 

But for the purpose of discussion, I think you nudged my opinion a bit. 

The difference there is that Notre Dame has always had strong Irish ties, and the Irish people have no problem with the name. It is believed the nickname draws from a description of Irish players on the football team by other members of the football team in a way they liked. 

 

If an Italian school named themselves the Fighting Irish, and Irish people didn't like the name but they kept it anyway, then it would be analogous. The issue is one group characterizing another in a way that is not appreciated and making it their own brand.

[Digby]

Really come around on the Guardians' red at home look -- uses their best wordmark, it's a sharp-looking jersey that's maybe the best alternate jersey of the red/navy crowd in MLB, even the number font doesn't bother me depending on the numerals (and realizing now what I dislike about it is the clunky serifs). Feels right and relatively distinctive for that color scheme. Just needs a better cap logo than the pinched C and I'm wondering the G-ball would work on the cap after all; the Indians days set precent for not using the city name initial on their cap, anyway.

[The_Admiral]

I was a fan of the navy jersey/red undershirt pairing from 2016. That felt like a unique enough spin on the color scheme, though I always thought a darker red would have complemented the midnight blue nicely and set them off from the Twins a bit more.

 

I liked the perfectly acceptable '80s hat and if they had stuck with it, we could have avoided a lot of eventual headaches.

[Captain Invader]

Maybe they are waiting for the upcoming renovations to Progressive Field, but there currently is not much Guardians branding throughout the concourses at the stadium.

 

Plenty of dark blue (navy) and red on the old signage, but hardly any Guardians, G-ball logo, or even the new C.

[ltravisjr]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:42 PM, fouhy12 said:

The difference there is that Notre Dame has always had strong Irish ties, and the Irish people have no problem with the name. It is believed the nickname draws from a description of Irish players on the football team by other members of the football team in a way they liked. 

 

If an Italian school named themselves the Fighting Irish, and Irish people didn't like the name but they kept it anyway, then it would be analogous. The issue is one group characterizing another in a way that is not appreciated and making it their own brand.

 

I have always wondered about the Fighting Irish. I am not Irish but don't think I would appreciate the goofy logo or leprechaun with his dance. I can't speak for the Irish, but if there were Irish folks who felt that way, is the ND identity unacceptable? Or does the fact that they had actual Irish players on the team provide the necessary seal of approval? By the same reasoning, if a Native American named team actually had members of that group on their team, and they liked it, would that then make the Native American identity for that team acceptable? Or are we just at the stage where you don't use the identity of an ethnic or race identified group, nationality, religious persuasion (Padres and Saints, I am looking at you), etc. at all?

[Carolingian Steamroller]

On 10/14/2022 at 3:42 PM, fouhy12 said:

The difference there is that Notre Dame has always had strong Irish ties, and the Irish people have no problem with the name. It is believed the nickname draws from a description of Irish players on the football team by other members of the football team in a way they liked. 

 

If an Italian school named themselves the Fighting Irish, and Irish people didn't like the name but they kept it anyway, then it would be analogous. The issue is one group characterizing another in a way that is not appreciated and making it their own brand.

 

I think the better analogy is if Oxford used the nickname "Fighting Irish." It's not just the lack of connection to the name, its also everything that goes with the history. I'm differentiating with other British clubs that do have Irish associations with nicknames like Celtic  FC (Glasgow, Scotland) who got the name through their heavily Irish immigrant fanbase. So if most English of the English, Oxford, who once granted an honorary law degree to Irish arch-nemesis Oliver Cromwell, started peddling a stereotyped Irish mascot, I guarantee there'd be hell to pay.

[The_Admiral]

"Oxford Fighting Irish" just sounds like a standard subject-verb-object construction.

[McCall]

On 10/16/2022 at 11:56 AM, the admiral said:

I was a fan of the navy jersey/red undershirt pairing from 2016. That felt like a unique enough spin on the color scheme

 

I still don't know why they took the piping off of the updated navy "Cleveland" jersey with the addition of the red one (and removal of Wahoo), and the same thing with the subsequent switch to Guardians. It features on all the other jerseys and it's subtraction makes the navy one look more like a plain BP jersey.

[MJWalker45]

11 hours ago, McCall said:

I still don't know why they took the piping off of the updated navy "Cleveland" jersey with the addition of the red one (and removal of Wahoo), and the same thing with the subsequent switch to Guardians. It features on all the other jerseys and it's subtraction makes the navy one look more like a plain BP jersey.

They just used the previous shirts from last year, and I think for the aways, piping would improve them just that much more.