NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[Fowler2]

As long as it's not ThunderBears

 

[Sec19Row53]

16 minutes ago, BottomlessPitt said:

As long as it's not ThunderBears

 

ThunderrrBearz!

 

With the exclamation mark in the name.

 

I'm kidding.

[DustDevil61]

36 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

Taking a moment to remember that brief period in the mid-2000s where the Utah Grizzlies were the AHL affiliate of the Coyotes and it went so badly they had to reboot the team name in the ECHL.

[The_Admiral]

On 4/8/2024 at 4:18 PM, spartacat_12 said:

But sure, let's dump all over a privately financed arena plan and advocate for the team to play in a building that rinsed taxpayers out of hundreds of millions of dollars. 

 

You're describing anything the Phoenix Coyotes have done or will ever do as a victory for private enterprise and the free market? Do you ever get tired of carrying your balls around in a wheelbarrow?

[Red Comet]

51 minutes ago, The_Admiral said:

 

You're describing anything the Phoenix Coyotes have done or will ever do as a victory for private enterprise and the free market? Do you ever get tired of carrying your balls around in a wheelbarrow?

If anything, the Coyotes are an argument for free enterprise in that the truly free market move would’ve been to let Jimmy Sillyballs move the team to Hamilton. 

[spartacat_12]

14 hours ago, The_Admiral said:

You're describing anything the Phoenix Coyotes have done or will ever do as a victory for private enterprise and the free market? Do you ever get tired of carrying your balls around in a wheelbarrow?

 

Look I'm well aware that I've taken the unpopular side of this debate over the years. Part of it is because I've personally seen a couple of my teams get relocated (including one I was working for), and part of it is just playing devil's advocate to try and balance things out. When they lost the Tempe vote I assumed that would be it for them, and I'm still a little confused as to why the league didn't just get the relocation wheels in motion as soon as that happened.

 

What I'm pointing out is the hypocrisy within the hockey community (not just on here). Any time a new arena/stadium is announced people complain about public funding and talk about how it never actually helps taxpayers, yet there's suddenly all this excitement about Utah having a new publicly funded arena planned. 

[LMU]

It's disingenuous to use the Coyotes as an example of being a pillar of prudent use of public funds when they were literally evicted from their previous arena for, amongst other things, failing to pay taxes.

[Sodboy13]

And before that were given subsidies at the expense of a city's fire department.

[McCall]

1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

Look I'm well aware that I've taken the unpopular side of this debate over the years. Part of it is because I've personally seen a couple of my teams get relocated (including one I was working for), and part of it is just playing devil's advocate to try and balance things out. When they lost the Tempe vote I assumed that would be it for them, and I'm still a little confused as to why the league didn't just get the relocation wheels in motion as soon as that happened.

 

What I'm pointing out is the hypocrisy within the hockey community (not just on here). Any time a new arena/stadium is announced people complain about public funding and talk about how it never actually helps taxpayers, yet there's suddenly all this excitement about Utah having a new publicly funded arena planned. 

This is not the same as other relocations as it genuinely seems like the Phoenix market doesn't care one way or the other if the Coyotes leave town.

[spartacat_12]

48 minutes ago, McCall said:

This is not the same as other relocations as it genuinely seems like the Phoenix market doesn't care one way or the other if the Coyotes leave town.

 

There is still a group of fans that will be heartbroken by the move, even if it isn't as sizeable as other markets, plus hundreds of regular people who will be losing their jobs or forced to uproot their lives if they want to stay employed. Obviously it's a business decision, but there are still human impacts to any relocation.

[McCall]

7 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

There is still a group of fans that will be heartbroken by the move, even if it isn't as sizeable as other markets, plus hundreds of regular people who will be losing their jobs or forced to uproot their lives if they want to stay employed. Obviously it's a business decision, but there are still human impacts to any relocation.

If there's not enough interest in the current market, then it's doomed to fail. Possibly after causing even more damage. Delaying the inevitable is not really a good thing.

[Sport]

Just now, spartacat_12 said:

 

Look I'm well aware that I've taken the unpopular side of this debate over the years. Part of it is because I've personally seen a couple of my teams get relocated (including one I was working for), and part of it is just playing devil's advocate to try and balance things out. When they lost the Tempe vote I assumed that would be it for them, and I'm still a little confused as to why the league didn't just get the relocation wheels in motion as soon as that happened.

 

What I'm pointing out is the hypocrisy within the hockey community (not just on here). Any time a new arena/stadium is announced people complain about public funding and talk about how it never actually helps taxpayers, yet there's suddenly all this excitement about Utah having a new publicly funded arena planned. 

 

I don't think that's happening. People don't seem that excited for Utah (I know I'm not). Utah might as well just be NOT PHOENIX right now. I've seen excitement from some people that the Phoenix experiment is finally coming to an end, but the where and the how isn't what people are worried about at the moment. 

[SFGiants58]

Exactly - the whole point is getting rid of the NHL in the Phoenix metro area, no matter the cost or destination.

[Red Comet]

A cornfield in Peculiar, Missouri would be a better spot for the Yotes than Phoenix. Maybe they can try again in 20 years assuming it’s still a major market. 
 

[Sodboy13]

55 minutes ago, Sport said:

 

I don't think that's happening. People don't seem that excited for Utah (I know I'm not). Utah might as well just be NOT PHOENIX right now. I've seen excitement from some people that the Phoenix experiment is finally coming to an end, but the where and the how isn't what people are worried about at the moment. 

 

Look at the start date for this topic. We're almost thirteen years in here, and the very loud problems of the Coyotes predate the topic by a few more years than that. It has never been good or looked promising that entire time. In fact, one can argue that the NHL fumbled the Phoenix market years before the Coyotes even existed. Jerry Colangelo wanted his new arena for the Suns to have an NHL tenant. The pre-Bettman league office told him they had no interest in ever putting a team there, ever. So Jerry saved himself a few bills by making a basketball arena that could technically hold a rink if, say, the Roadrunners were interested in partnering up.

 

The Winnipeg Jets were sold to a couple of guys who did not want to move to Phoenix. They wanted to put the team in Minnesota, and couldn't make it happen. So they settled for Phoenix as part of Bettman's Sun Belt Strategy and played in a configuration that made the Isles at Barclays look like frozen heaven while their ideal new arena would certainly be right around the corner. Before the second season was done the original owners were bailing and there were serious talks of selling to Paul Allen and moving everything to Portland. It has been that bad for that long, it has bordered on farce since before a time when we all toted the internet in our pants, and even those who haven't mired themselves in the particulars over the years like I have can see the college rink and the arena plans failing in a landslide vote and the losses upon losses upon losses and say "good riddance" to all of it without a shred of ill will toward the players, frontline employees, or remaining fans.

 

And I still wouldn't bet against them playing at Mullett next season.

[The_Admiral]

4 hours ago, Sport said:

I don't think that's happening. People don't seem that excited for Utah (I know I'm not). Utah might as well just be NOT PHOENIX right now. I've seen excitement from some people that the Phoenix experiment is finally coming to an end, but the where and the how isn't what people are worried about at the moment. 

 

I have no excitement for this. I have major reservations about a market of 2.5 million with heavily directional sprawl where the only other team in the market runs concurrently and is almost as established as the Church of England, where hockey does not have a long history of success, where the arena has the same NBA-first sightlines that doomed Phoenix in the first place. The only advantage Salt Lake City has over Quebec City is staying on Mountain Time.

 

But the Coyotes have been on life support for 15 years, the league has cockteased four or five different cities now only to keep doubling down on stupid, and every owner since the days of league control has run out of money, not paid taxes, or both. Enough already. I'm old and tired. Just let this end.

[kimball]

1 hour ago, The_Admiral said:

 

I have no excitement for this. I have major reservations about a market of 2.5 million with heavily directional sprawl where the only other team in the market runs concurrently and is almost as established as the Church of England, where hockey does not have a long history of success, where the arena has the same NBA-first sightlines that doomed Phoenix in the first place. The only advantage Salt Lake City has over Quebec City is staying on Mountain Time.

 

But the Coyotes have been on life support for 15 years, the league has cockteased four or five different cities now only to keep doubling down on stupid, and every owner since the days of league control has run out of money, not paid taxes, or both. Enough already. I'm old and tired. Just let this end.

 

I agree with the concerns, however, I think it helps having both the Jazz and NHL team owned by the same person. 

[The_Admiral]

I'm not sure it helps, but separate ownership would have doomed them.

 

I think this team's fanbase will have a very similar profile to that of the Hurricanes fanbase. They will be the team of the "Ride the SLUT" set. Does Salt Lake City have low-key amazing craft breweries???

[Gary]

You’re talking to someone who was raised in Phoenix/Glendale. There’s no branding, no advertisement and even if they are within fans. They are still last in the pecking order with the Suns/Cardinals/Diamondbacks who have a rabid to decent fan base. Honestly if they go only 1/8 of the Phoenix market will care. Let them leave. Let them go get a fan base in the SLC area. 

[FiddySicks]

Yeah hockey in Phoenix just isn’t gonna happen. It’s been long time to move on.