2021 NFL Season - Adults Arguing About Matt Stafford

[PittsburghSucks]

3 hours ago, the admiral said:

No, Susanna Hoffs has been shattering that record year after year after year.

 

Susanna Hoffs is 63. (1/17/59)

[DoctorWhom]

I'm just saying, if not for that final drive, most people would be pointing the finger at Stafford for losing the Super Bowl (even if there were hundred other reasons). It's not like he was fantastic that game, really neither QB was. But in the end, Stafford did just the minimum of what he had to do to win.  

[rams80]

24 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

I'm just saying, if not for that final drive, most people would be pointing the finger at Stafford for losing the Super Bowl (even if there were hundred other reasons). It's not like he was fantastic that game, really neither QB was. But in the end, Stafford did just the minimum of what he had to do to win.  

I'd have cited some mix of injuries, the Rams O-Line not playing well, and Sean McVay killing drives trying to make Cam Akers happen.

 

Anyway, you have to include that final drive in the ultimate calculus, especially since, again, Jared Goff could never have done that.

[DoctorWhom]

8 minutes ago, rams80 said:

I'd have cited some mix of injuries, the Rams O-Line not playing well, and Sean McVay killing drives trying to make Cam Akers happen.

 

Anyway, you have to include that final drive in the ultimate calculus, especially since, again, Jared Goff could never have done that.

I think you missed the other part right after that. Yeah there were a lot of other reasons, but people are going to blame the QB regardless. Especially when you paid a King's ransom for him. He was a passable and did what he had to do to win. Which I guess is what matters in the end.

I just wish people would stop pretending he did something super amazing. Yeah he had a Game winning drive in the Super Bowl. Forget Goff, there's a dozen other QB's that could have done the same. I mean, he sure a hell can't be argued for MVP. 

But again, they won. So that's all that matters.   

[IceCap]

39 minutes ago, DoctorWhom said:

I'm just saying, if not for that final drive, most people would be pointing the finger at Stafford for losing the Super Bowl (even if there were hundred other reasons). It's not like he was fantastic that game, really neither QB was. But in the end, Stafford did just the minimum of what he had to do to win.  

I mean sure, if that final drive hadn't happened or gone wrong then we're singing a different tune but I mean...what happened happened.

What's the point of trying to minimize a win like that?

[rams80]

Kupp was deserving, Stafford wouldn't have been undeserving, I saw some line about how it's a shame you can't award it to the front seven of the Rams' defense, and that is true because they in their collectivity took over the second half.

[DoctorWhom]

I'm not trying to minimize it, I'm just saying to pump the brakes a bit of Stafford when he's far from the only reason they won the game. 

I hear people talking about him as Hall of Famer already, like really?

[Tracy Jordan]

1 minute ago, DoctorWhom said:

I'm not trying to minimize it, I'm just saying to pump the breaks a bit of Stafford when he's far from the only reason they won the game. 

I hear people talking about him as Hall of Famer already, like really?

 

Did you see his performance against the Bucs a few weeks ago? While the entire Rams team was melting down around him, he carried them to a win and had arguably one of the best postseason QB performances in recent memory. Not to mention he's led them on three game winning drives in this postseason alone! I don't know many QBs who could have won this game today with two starting receivers and a starting tight end out while playing behind a shaky o-line and supported by a running game that produced a whopping 43 yards.

 

Look at the numbers he produced in Detroit and now add a Super Bowl win to his resume. Yes, I would say he's definitely reached Hall of Fame status.

[DoctorWhom]

15 minutes ago, Tracy Jordan said:

 

Did you see his performance against the Bucs a few weeks ago? While the entire Rams team was melting down around him, he carried them to a win and had arguably one of the best postseason QB performances in recent memory. Not to mention he's led them on three game winning drives in this postseason alone! I don't know many QBs who could have won this game today with two starting receivers and a starting tight end out while playing behind a shaky o-line and supported by a running game that produced a whopping 43 yards.

 

Look at the numbers he produced in Detroit and now add a Super Bowl win to his resume. Yes, I would say he's definitely reached Hall of Fame status.

Well, you certainly have a lower bar for the Hall then I do I guess. 

 

I'll also stop you partway & say Josh Allen was the one that was having one of the greatest Postseason performances in recent memory. Before KC cut it short.

You're also giving him far too much credit when it was the defense that won it for them. Remember the pick he threw at the start of the 3rd? Defense doesn't hold them to a FG it's a completely different game.

 

I mean, you're really talking about putting this guy in the same hall as guys like Rothlisberger, Brees, Warner, & Rodgers? Because of 1 Super Bowl? Yeah....ok.   Can he get a few pro bowls & all-pros first? Maybe an MVP too? 

[DEAD!]

Mattew Stafford winning the same year as Georgia winning the National title seems poetic.

... and Stan Kreonke's glorious, maniacal plan that took years in the making actually worked... 

[pepis21]

There is no commercials on nfl.com?

[burgundy]

4 hours ago, DoctorWhom said:

I mean, you're really talking about putting this guy in the same hall as guys like Rothlisberger, Brees, Warner, & Rodgers? Because of 1 Super Bowl? Yeah....ok.   Can he get a few pro bowls & all-pros first? Maybe an MVP too? 

 

A few years old, but still relevant.

 

Super Bowls aren't everything (though he now has as many as Brees, Warner, and Rodgers), and your other metrics are subjective awards. Stats don't lie. Rothlisberger being a better QB than Stafford is laughable. He just had better teams.

[BBTV]

Stats absolutely lie!  It's super easy to rack up tons of passing yards when your team is always losing and you're throwing it 100 times a game.  I hate Ben Roethisberger just like any decent human should, but the notion that Matt Stafford is a better QB or more deserving than him of HOF is ludicrous.  Also while Pittsburgh isn't the hardest place to play, you're certainly under more pressure and more of a microscope than Stafford has ever been in, considering he's played in two dead NFL markets and never in a high-pressure game until this year.

[dont care]

5 hours ago, DoctorWhom said:

Well, you certainly have a lower bar for the Hall then I do I guess. 

 

I'll also stop you partway & say Josh Allen was the one that was having one of the greatest Postseason performances in recent memory. Before KC cut it short.

You're also giving him far too much credit when it was the defense that won it for them. Remember the pick he threw at the start of the 3rd? Defense doesn't hold them to a FG it's a completely different game.

 

I mean, you're really talking about putting this guy in the same hall as guys like Rothlisberger, Brees, Warner, & Rodgers? Because of 1 Super Bowl? Yeah....ok.   Can he get a few pro bowls & all-pros first? Maybe an MVP too? 

Yes when you look at his body of work this super bowl is what made him a HoFer but he had one of the statistically best careers for any qb who hadn’t won a super bowl yet. In the late 2000’s to mid 10’s he was a top 5 qb in the league when he wasn’t injured. He’s still pretty close to that now. He led the league in passing when everyone was breaking records at that time, but wasn’t recognized due to being on the Lions.

[BBTV]

9 minutes ago, dont care said:

 but wasn’t recognized due to being on the Lions.

 

And nothing anyone does with the Lions matters.  It just doesn't.  Not a single pass he threw for them was in a pressure situation where the game mattered or there was any fan / media scrutiny.  So many yards that QBs like him have are racked up because they're always throwing because their teams are always losing.

 

He won a Super Bowl (again, playing a season in a place with no fan/media scrutiny) and maybe that validates his case, but it's not the Hall of Statistics, so a mostly anonymous player on a meaningless team doesn't count in my book.

 

If not for fantasy football, would people really even know who Matt Stafford was?  Not just picking on him exclusively, there's others in that category too.

[tBBP]

1 minute ago, BBTV said:

 

And nothing anyone does with the Lions matters.  It just doesn't.  Not a single pass he threw for them was in a pressure situation where the game mattered or there was any fan / media scrutiny.  So many yards that QBs like him have are racked up because they're always throwing because their teams are always losing.

 

He won a Super Bowl (again, playing a season in a place with no fan/media scrutiny) and maybe that validates his case, but it's not the Hall of Statistics, so a mostly anonymous player on a meaningless team doesn't count in my book.

 

If not for fantasy football, would people really even know who Matt Stafford was?  Not just picking on him exclusively, there's others in that category too.

 

*RRRING* That'd be Barry Sanders' representatives on Line 1. (Because you know Barry ain't gonna pump himself up.)

 

Also EL OH to the EL @ Matthew Stafford being a HoF QB...really? This is our metric now? Look, I like dude. I respected the heck out of him in Detroit when all he had had Calvin Johnson and barely anything else. Dude was a competitor. (And Lord knows Detroit hadn't had a franchise QB since...what, Bobby Layne for the short time he was there?) But cut it out with the HoF talk. Shoot, have a hard time ranking Ben Roethlisberger as a HoFer...had he had that career with any other team, ain't nobody thinking about him.  Don't get me started on Eli Manning...and that's about the class I put Stafford in.

 

I did need a laugh this morning...this fit that bill.

[infrared41]

6 hours ago, DoctorWhom said:

 

I mean, you're really talking about putting this guy in the same hall as guys like Rothlisberger, Brees, Warner, & Rodgers? Because of 1 Super Bowl?

 

if Kurt Warner is in the HOF, there is no good argument against Stafford being in the HOF. Stafford has had the better career and it's not even close.

[Sec19Row53]

Any time stats come up, I ought to mention that you need to compare the stats from the era in which they occur. A QB today has better numbers than Dan Fouts (for example)? Great, but teams pass more now than they used to. A running back is running for 1000 yards? Impressive, but given the number of game in the season, that isn't as impressive as Jim Taylor doing so in the 60s. On the other hand, running isn't as common now as then, so maybe there's a balance.

 

Don't even get me started on receiving statistics. That's where things really are screwed up over time.

[spartacat_12]

12 hours ago, Rockstar Matt said:

Aaron Donald and Cooper Kupp. All I have to say. Unbelievable. Both of them. Kupp was amazing on that last drive. Incredible. 

 

Aaron Donald is the best player in the league, top 5 defensive player of all time. What a moment for him. Sealing the title on back to back plays. 

 

Unfortunately for him the MVP votes still need to be in by the 2 minute warning for some reason. If they're voting after the game, the stops on 3rd & 1 then 4th & 1 would've probably tipped the scales in his favour. 

[Kramerica Industries]

43 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

if Kurt Warner is in the HOF, there is no good argument against Stafford being in the HOF. Stafford has had the better career and it's not even close.

 

Would have to strongly agree here. Kurt Warner had...five great seasons was it? Just spitballing from memory without looking it up. GSOT Rams which then fizzled out badly for him in 2002, and which point he was basically a journeyman backup for the next several seasons or so before he suddenly popped up good again in Arizona, and even that ended up being only about 2.5 seasons before retiring. 

 

One of those guys who, when he was good, he was really good, and I have no problem at all with him being in the HOF because the F stands for "Fame" and you can't argue against how famous the late '90s/early '00s Rams were. He's not far away from being a 3x Super Bowl winning QB. And maybe as @Sec19Row53 also alludes to, the NFL is so much more pass happy these days so maybe I'm not being fair to Warner in that first paragraph. The GSOT Rams played like a team that was about 15 years ahead of their time, knowing how the modern NFL looks, and they were doing it at a time when defensive backs were still able to be much more physical on receivers. So if he got a bump thanks in part to that, he deserved it.

 

(This was a bit OT from your post. I do agree 100% with your claim. It's not Stafford's fault he was often surrounded by incompetence in Detroit. Him being a Super Bowl-winning QB is way overdue.)