Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[thespleenenator]

Memphis would actually make a lot of SEC hoops coaches happy, as it would allow them to have access into one of college hoops' most fertile recruiting grounds.

Too bad their football program is an absolute joke.

Ummm....doesn't the SEC already HAVE two teams in Tennessee? To go with the two in Mississippi and the one in Arkansas? I think the SEC pretty much has Memphis covered. Especially now that Calipari is gone.

UT is located in Knoxville - a good six-hour drive from Memphis (and in a different time zone). Vandy is located in Nashville, which is three hours away. Fayetteville (Arkansas) is five hours away, at least. Oxford (Ole Miss) is a good seven hours from Memphis, and Starkville (Miss State) is about a three-hour trip. None of those locations "cover" Memphis by any means, and trying to tell recruits that they'd be "close to home" or that their parents would be able to watch them play would be ludicrous.

When it comes to college hoops, Memphis exists by itself. They have been yearning for an opportunity to join a conference like the Big East to renew their rivalries with teams like Louisville and Cincinnati. But their football program has been what has been holding them back. Their stadium is by far the worst in D-1 FBS, and the product they put on the field isn't much better. And the fact that they fired the only coach to take them to a bowl since 1971 after one bad season only adds to the perception that they have a Napoleon complex when it comes to football.

Memphis basketball is big in Memphis.

Memphis football in not.

I've been to Memphis numerous times in the last couple years. Despite having a Conference-USA school down the street, the SEC (mainly Tennessee and Ole Miss) is king in Memphis for football. Tennessee has a medical school there, and in general, UT football is #1 in every Tennessee city, Nashville included.

An honest question for all the Mizzou fans out there:

Do you really believe your team can be competitive in football playing in the SEC West East?

FYP

Has it been confirmed that they'll be playing in the East?

Even so, they'll have to compete with the likes of Georgia, South Carolina and Florida on a yearly basis. Those might not be on the level of LSU, Alabama or Arkansas but they are still definitely not teams that will lay down for Mizzou by any means.

How many conference/national championships was Missouri winning in the Big XII?

Missouri isn't going to the SEC because they believe they'll contend better (right away, that is). They're going because it's a better solution for them long-term, as well as the SEC being an equal-in-revenue-sharing conference and getting away from the Texas-slanted Big XII.

Just because Mizzou wont compete today, doesn't mean they wont compete tomorrow. If you would have told someone in the 80's that Florida would be a force, they would laugh.

Hence, why people shouldn't be laughing at the PAC-12 for picking up Colorado. They'll be back eventually.

[rams80]

The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

Compared to the Big East though it's the rock of Gibraltar. Yes there is a chance certain schools might bolt if specific conferences came calling, but all of the ACC's membership isn't actively looking for an escape. You can't say that about the Big East.

[rams80]

So why don't you tell me about Jo Pa and the Big East?

NYU killed all sports because of betting scandals. NYU-CCNY was a big deal at the Garden. NYU played a national football schedule. NYU has a huge alumni base. NYU is one of the richest schools in the country. If they wanted to start a football program with an eye on joining a conference such as the Big East, or g-d forbid, the ACC, they could do it.

Because it would be easier to just pile up and burn the millions of dollars NYU would inevitably piss away to bootstrap its entire goddamn athletic department to I-A level, with accompanying hundreds of expensive athletic scholarships and massive facilities upgrades, all to field a team in a city that really doesn't have that much of an interest in collegiate sports, all things considered. If the athletic director seriously proposed trying to take NYU to Division I-A level, I'm certain he would be fired on the spot.

The ACC is an utter joke to me. They bought their stability by raiding conferences because they could grow organically (that means adding schools from lower conferences like East Carolina).

PROTIP: Nobody wants East Carolina. They didn't even get a Big East invite.

I'm sure if Florida State wanted to create a conference it could, given their name. I wouldn't be so sure a 14-team or 16-team ACC lasts.

You don't quite understand how things work in NCAA athletics and how things are run.

If any Mexican school makes it into the NCAA, others are sure to follow. That opens a huge media market for the likes of ESPN and Fox.

Seriously, you don't. And your knowledge of current events could likely fit on a thimble.

[rams80]

Well, I don't think NYU would have to compete for athletes all that hard. There happens to be a huge and deep reservior of talent here in the City alone. Does NYU have high academic standards? Sure. They say its graduate business program is top 10. I graduated from it. I disagree. Top 20 maybe. Not top 10.

Problem is a sutiable stadium. NYU hoped to build one on the Brooklyn side of the East River at one point. If a soccer stadium came to be for say an MLS expansion team (think Cosmos, think outside of CitiField), that's one possibility.

I also did some digging. The 1941 NYU football schedule:

9/22 scrimmage Temple

9/27 W 25-7 PMC (OF) 6,000

10/4 W 6-0 at Lafayette 7,000

10/11 L 7-49 Texas A&M (YS) 18,000

10/18 L 0-31 Syracuse (YS) 10,000

10/25 L 0-13 at Holy Cross 10,000

10/31 L 0-42 Penn State (Polo Grounds) (n) 10,691

11/8 L 0-26 Missouri (YS) 6,700

11/15 L 0-45 Tulane (YS) 8,100

11/29 L 9-30 Fordham (YS) 31,000

They stunk but look - Tex A & M, 'Cuse, Penn State......

Who is to say they can't or won't do it again?

Major college athletics (and professional athletics) have changed so much from 1941 that, well, it's kind of apples and fusion reactors.

[rams80]

Just because Mizzou wont compete today, doesn't mean they wont compete tomorrow. If you would have told someone in the 80's that Florida would be a force, they would laugh.

I dunno, prior to Pinkel, Mizzou had elevated dick tripping and talent squandering to an art form over its entire existence. I suspect their most likely SEC outcome is to be another South Carolina in the east division.

[DCDuck]

The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

Compared to the Big East though it's the rock of Gibraltar. Yes there is a chance certain schools might bolt if specific conferences came calling, but all of the ACC's membership isn't actively looking for an escape. You can't say that about the Big East.

Just because the ACC is more stable than the Big East doesn't mean the ACC is actually stable. That's like comparing Danny DeVito to a garden gnome.

[Chicageaux]

I would have to say the ACC is pretty stable. They might not be as stable as the Big 10, Pac-12, or SEC, but I don't see them losing any members until this whole mess starts again next season.

[ESTONES6]

I would have to say the ACC is pretty stable. They might not be as stable as the Big 10, Pac-12, or SEC, but I don't see them losing any members until this whole mess starts again next season.

Right. Could they get raided? Sure. But they already have a larger number of schools in the conference and probably will only gain more over the next 12-15 months. A few schools here and there could be picked up by the B1G and SEC, but I think that would be if you see conference expansion greater than 16 teams. I don't see it going much passed 16 teams, so I would say they are pretty stable.

[McCall]

Precisely. Adding Pitt and Syracuse, and potentially UConn and Rutgers, is what gives them the stability even if they do lose a few schools. Though, the additions plus the raising of the buyout (though not impossible to vet through), may have set the conference up to where some of these schools may not want to leave. Coupled with the SEC's new policy about not taking in schools in the states of current members (again, not ironclad but solid), helps as well. SEC, PAC-12 and B1G are the most stable of the power conferences, with ACC right there. However, the ACC is really the safest outside those 3. The Big 12 is hanging around, but I wouldn't call it stable. It's surviving and in the end may still be around, just not as strong. The Big Easy, however, is plummeting fast and it's only chance of survival is grasping on to team's from lesser conferences and hoping it's enough.

[McCall]

The ACC is an utter joke to me. They bought their stability by raiding conferences because they could grow organically (that means adding schools from lower conferences like East Carolina).

The best conferences pick from the top. Weak conferences pick from the bottom.

ACC is a top conference. Big East is weak.

[dfwabel]

The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

Compared to the Big East though it's the rock of Gibraltar. Yes there is a chance certain schools might bolt if specific conferences came calling, but all of the ACC's membership isn't actively looking for an escape. You can't say that about the Big East.

Just because the ACC is more stable than the Big East doesn't mean the ACC is actually stable. That's like comparing Danny DeVito to a garden gnome.

Stability is a 12 year, all-inclusive contract with ESPN through 2024 worth at least $3B.

The Big East is in their last year of a contract which possesses one-third the ACC's annual value and the non-AQ conferences have TV contracts which are at less than one-tenth the ACC's value per year.

Plus, if the SEC still has the "gentlemen's agreement" not to add a second school from a member state, there are somewhat limited choices. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, and any Texas school are out. Viable options from the football side would just leave Maryland, VT, NC State and possible UNC (who is looking at probation in the face).

[DCDuck]

Plus, if the SEC still has the "gentlemen's agreement" not to add a second school from a member state, there are somewhat limited choices. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, and any Texas school are out. Viable options from the football side would just leave Maryland, VT, NC State and possible UNC (who is looking at probation in the face).

I think realignment has taught us not to take anything that anyone says at face value.

Virginia Tech is the one school in the ACC that I'd consider "safe" as long as UVA is still in the conference. There are unfathomably powerful forces at work keeping the two of them joined at the hip.

Miami and UNC face upcoming NCAA sanctions too. If you want to talk about the viability of the ACC as a football conference, they have VT and they have whoever the "flavor of the season" team happens to be (this year it's Clemson). In a couple of years you might see people question whether the ACC deserves a BCS bid when they only have two teams out of fourteen that appear to be anything north of mediocre.

I still believe there's going to be something that comes up creating a schism between Cuse, Pitt, BC and the other nine schools. The ACC built itself as a southern basketball conference and although adding northeast schools adds revenue, I don't know if they'll all fit together (nothing says football rivalry like Syracuse vs. Wake Forest!).

Or maybe I'm one of the few who still believes that tradition actually means something in this day and age.

[RyanMcD29]

Plus, if the SEC still has the "gentlemen's agreement" not to add a second school from a member state, there are somewhat limited choices. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, and any Texas school are out. Viable options from the football side would just leave Maryland, VT, NC State and possible UNC (who is looking at probation in the face).

I think realignment has taught us not to take anything that anyone says at face value.

Virginia Tech is the one school in the ACC that I'd consider "safe" as long as UVA is still in the conference. There are unfathomably powerful forces at work keeping the two of them joined at the hip.

Miami and UNC face upcoming NCAA sanctions too. If you want to talk about the viability of the ACC as a football conference, they have VT and they have whoever the "flavor of the season" team happens to be (this year it's Clemson). In a couple of years you might see people question whether the ACC deserves a BCS bid when they only have two teams out of fourteen that appear to be anything north of mediocre.

I still believe there's going to be something that comes up creating a schism between Cuse, Pitt, BC and the other nine schools. The ACC built itself as a southern basketball conference and although adding northeast schools adds revenue, I don't know if they'll all fit together (nothing says football rivalry like Syracuse vs. Wake Forest!).

Or maybe I'm one of the few who still believes that tradition actually means something in this day and age.

See, the only issue with that is, I don't know, BC's been very happy with being in the ACC up to this point being in it for 7 years or so now being the only school in the region, and now they're getting two more northeastern schools. And if say the ACC loses VT or FSU, they're gonna add UConn and Rutgers. The northeastern schools would be well satisfied at that point, and other than Penn State it's back to pre-04 Big East where every major northeastern school's in the same conference. Besides, of let's say those 3 schools to have a schism, why the hell would the Big East have them come back anyway after all 3 left the conference, plus the possibility of UConn and Rutgers doing the same. And if Rutgers joins the B10, then the idea of a northeastern football conference is completely out the window and you better be watching FCS if you want any all-northeastern conference.

And about tradition, well, at least with Syracuse, BC's more of a traditional rival than anyone else we play in the Big East save for West Virginia, who's not even gonna be in the Big East anymore anyway. And it's not like Syracuse has been playing Colgate and Cornell every year for the past 40 years, either, and those were some pretty big rivalries back in the day. And if we must bring up the Georgetown basketball rivalry, we'll play them the same amount of times that we do now this season in the Big East when we move to the ACC anyway, so that's not going away.

[ESTONES6]

The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

Compared to the Big East though it's the rock of Gibraltar. Yes there is a chance certain schools might bolt if specific conferences came calling, but all of the ACC's membership isn't actively looking for an escape. You can't say that about the Big East.

Just because the ACC is more stable than the Big East doesn't mean the ACC is actually stable. That's like comparing Danny DeVito to a garden gnome.

Stability is a 12 year, all-inclusive contract with ESPN through 2024 worth at least $3B.

The Big East is in their last year of a contract which possesses one-third the ACC's annual value and the non-AQ conferences have TV contracts which are at less than one-tenth the ACC's value per year.

Plus, if the SEC still has the "gentlemen's agreement" not to add a second school from a member state, there are somewhat limited choices. FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, and any Texas school are out. Viable options from the football side would just leave Maryland, VT, NC State and possible UNC (who is looking at probation in the face).

One of the Virginia schools + NC State seem the most likely if the SEC were to go to 16, assuming Texas and Oklahoma are taken off the table. That being said, the stability of the Big XII is connected to the stability of the Oklahoma/Texas relationship. If Texas decides to go Independent or Oklahoma decides to join the SEC, the Big XII won't be around for long. I don't think they can hang their hat on a Conference either solely located within Texas, nor can they survive with ONLY Texas, Texas Christian, and Oklahoma State.

One could argue that the Big East is more "stable" that the Big XII based on looking at the situation from a unique perspective. If you look at the Big East, its still considered a major conference... for how long, no one knows. But, the Big East does have the appeal of lower school like East Carolina or Memphis to jump up a rank. The Big East could survive by inviting lesser schools, but the Big East may not be a major conference anymore.

The Big XII, on the other hand, has pretty much tied itself to Texas and Oklahoma. If Oklahoma bounces, I don't see Texas just sitting around by itself. Similarly, if Texas were to leave for the B1G or go independent, I don't see Oklahoma (and by default, Oklahoma State) sticking around in the Big XII. I think if you take away Oklahoma or Texas, the conference basically collapses in on itself. The Big XII seems like it would have a harder time inviting school like UTEP and Tulane than the Big East would have inviting Memphis and East Carolina.

[Panthers]

Rams:

Get a grip. Try, at least for one day, not to be an ass, please.

And, you obviously know nothing about which Mexican school approached the NCAA.

[Gary]

Rams:

Get a grip. Try, at least for one day, not to be an ass, please.

And, you obviously know nothing about which Mexican school approached the NCAA.

But yet it's not a Mexican School, it's the National Sports Commission of Mexico about the NCAA Division II. Rams may sound like an ass, but he knows what he's talking about, he's always had his facts straight from his time from the Arena Football Boards to here.

[thespleenenator]

Rams:

Get a grip. Try, at least for one day, not to be an ass, please.

And, you obviously know nothing about which Mexican school approached the NCAA.

I do, and they have approached, as Gary. said, to join Division II. This isn't the first time a non american school has joined the NCAA. Saint Francis, from Canada, joined Division II recently, and there are schools from Puerto Rico already in the NCAA. Notice how ESPN is not jumping all over them. That is because those countries don't really care about college football. There is a reason there aren't many none american schools in the NCAA.

[dfwabel]

Rams:

Get a grip. Try, at least for one day, not to be an ass, please.

And, you obviously know nothing about which Mexican school approached the NCAA.

I do, and they have approached, as Gary. said, to join Division II. This isn't the first time a non american school has joined the NCAA. Saint Francis, from Canada, joined Division II recently, and there are schools from Puerto Rico already in the NCAA. Notice how ESPN is not jumping all over them. That is because those countries don't really care about college football. There is a reason there aren't many none american schools in the NCAA.

Um, don't you mean Simon Fraser?

[Breakwood]

Rams:

Get a grip. Try, at least for one day, not to be an ass, please.

And, you obviously know nothing about which Mexican school approached the NCAA.

I do, and they have approached, as Gary. said, to join Division II. This isn't the first time a non american school has joined the NCAA. Saint Francis, from Canada, joined Division II recently, and there are schools from Puerto Rico already in the NCAA. Notice how ESPN is not jumping all over them. That is because those countries don't really care about college football. There is a reason there aren't many none american schools in the NCAA.

Um, don't you mean Simon Fraser?

Yes he does. Simon Fraser from BC is in NCAA Div 2. Saint Francis Xavier from Nova Scoatia is still part of the CIS.

[DCDuck]

One of the Virginia schools + NC State seem the most likely if the SEC were to go to 16, assuming Texas and Oklahoma are taken off the table.

Virginia isn't going anywhere without Virginia Tech, and vice versa. Mark Warner might not be in office as Virginia governor anymore, but there are still powerful political forces keeping those two schools together in the ACC.