New Browns uni coming 2015

[nuordr]

What, exactly, is "the strong brand" associated with the team's current look? What thoughts/feelings does that brand evoke? Is it something a fan of the team wants to continue being associated with?

To me the biggest problem is not their strong brand now it is the almost certainty that the brand Nike puts out will be considerably worse.

All the teams they touched I would rate like this so far:

1. Minnesota Vikings - Slight Upgrade, not a big fan but overall it is better than what it replaced

2. Seattle Seahawks - Push, I was never a fan of their previous set & I really like some of the aspects but way too many inconsistencies on this one

3. Miami Dolphins - Downgrade in everything they changed from the previous set

4. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Downgrade in everything they changed from the previous set

5. Jacksonville Jaguars - Downgrade, Helmet is the worst thing I have seen in the NFL and the uniforms are slightly better than before but no where near the excellence of the 90s uniform

Looking at the stats say the Browns have about a 20% of looking better than they do now, 20% of looking the same, & 60% of looking worse or like a bunch of clowns.

The stats are not in their favor.

The odds are probably worse than that because the Browns currently have a good look. The Dolphins managed to downgrade from a muddled set and the Vikings upgraded in large part because the prior set was so bad.

In my opinion,

Vikings-upgrade, but go back to purple masks

Seahawks-lateral move, but fixed some minor issues

Dolphins-cleaned up a uniform with a simply classic upgrade

Jaguar-mix of upgrades and downgrades between various elements

Bucs-whiffed big time on a huge opportunity to upgrade and came away with a major downgrade

Totally agreed. Nike has more upgrades than downgrades so far.

Vikings: went from a 5/10 to an 8.5/10 = 7/10 to an 9/10 = Upgrade

Seahawks: 6/10 to a 7/10= 9/10 to a 7/10 = Downgrade

Dolphins: 5/10 vs 7/10 = 9/10 to a 5/10 = Downgrade

Jags: 2/10 to a 3.5/10 = 2/10 to a 1/10 = Downgrade

Bucs: 9/10 to 1/10 = 10/10 to 1/10 = Downgrade

To me, Nike has improved every team except the massive failure with the Bucs uniforms. My only gripe with Nike is their horrible templates and how they seem to make at least one mistake on every uniform. I like Seattle's look but those weird silver bars on the front of the uniform look silly and are unnecessary. The Vikings are nearly perfect but I think a yellow THIN (not those weird toilet bowls) collar would look good. The Dolphins have a nice look now that is modern and clean with a nice number font (I think Nike has improved tons of number fonts so far), but that uniform needs a tad more orange as on TV, the orange hardly shows. The Jags had a great look to start with and then downgraded tremendously in 2009 to that weird salt/pepper piping horribleness. Their template isn't the worst right now but that helmet is pitiful and they should be a teal dominant team not a black dominant team. Those Bucs uniforms are pretty much unsalvageable. In a year or two, Nike has to completely revisit those.

I'd also like to say that Nike only has so much control over the uniform process. Here's how uniforms actually get changed.

1. Owner says he wants new uniforms.

2. In-house people throw out ideas while out of house designers make concepts for the team using some of the ideas from the owner and others with input.

3. Nike sees what the out of house people have made and makes their own concepts (2-3 to choose from usually) that fit what's already been done.

4. The owner either chooses them or tells them to go back to the drawing table.

Nike doesn't do this on their own is what I'm trying to say.

My thoughts on your uniform ratings are in Green & Red.

[TalktoChuck]

I was a fan of the 2000s Browns' orange alternates and would love for them to bring some form of those back, but as alternates. You know what's even more unique than orange? Brown. The Browns are the only team in the NFL, nay, the big 4 leagues to wear brown. Other than putting your stamp on the team you own, why not own such a rarely-used color?

It might have to do with the fact that brown is by far the least popular colorway for sports merch. Obviously it's a popular color in the fashion world but seems to be pretty unpopular if you're trying to sell t's, caps, and hoodies in addition to jerseys. Navy and black seem to the the go to. colors which has become terribly stale.

Do you have an actual source for that?

I am confident that more blue and red merchandise gets sold than brown! In other words, Browns and throwback Padres gear accounts for less merchandise sales than Yankees/Sixers/Bulls/Braves/Cavaliers/Cardinals/Red Sox/ Cubs combined.

Wait, you're saying that merchandise from two teams doesn't outsell merchandise from 8 teams??? That is crazy!

Of course more red and blue merchandise is going to be sold than brown because there is a lot more of it. If you really want to see if the Browns' fans have a problem with brown merchandise you need to compare sales within the Browns brand. If the Browns are selling more black, grey and white merchandise than Brown, then you might have a point.

[CubsFanBudMan]

The Dolphins, Seahawks and Bucs were downgrades for me.

Had Miami gone double-teal I might have forgiven the minimized orange, but navy? Nah.

Seeing those old Seahawks unis side-by-side with the new reinforced my love for the old ones, even in monochrome. I viewed them as a modern classic and now... just too much Nike. The success hasn't washed the flaws away for me.

I truly feel the Jaguars uniforms sans helmet were upgrades from the previous set. But the helmet is just so bad it pulls it into downgrade territory.

[shaydre1019]

I think they're all upgrades except for the bucs.

Vikings were terrible, 2000's sports design in a nutshell(although I will say I preferred their old helmet. Black facemask is the only thing that bothers me now)

Seahawks, I liked their old set but it was just a bit too bland. I also didn't like the template with the weird yoke. Logo became too small and it just all got old imo. The new uniforms have their flaws but I think they look great despite me initially hating them. They grew on me.

Dolphins, I think they have a great look, their old set was stuck in the 90s. This new set has staying power. Big flaws though are the weird/stupid navy topped socks and like the old Seattle set, the logo is wayyyy too small.

Jaguars, definitely an upgrade. It all looks cohesive with the new branding except the helmet that looks like a blonde lady's roots are growing out. I just convince myself that the helmet doesn't actually exist. Oh and the real jersey needs white numbers.

Bucs, grew on me, not a bad set (sans the numbers), but their old set was great. They just needed to update the bumbers maybe and I could've even lived with the same color change, but other than that they had a fine set that didn't need changing. I actually do like the helmet. But yeah they downgraded.

[Jungle Jim]

I was a fan of the 2000s Browns' orange alternates and would love for them to bring some form of those back, but as alternates. You know what's even more unique than orange? Brown. The Browns are the only team in the NFL, nay, the big 4 leagues to wear brown. Other than putting your stamp on the team you own, why not own such a rarely-used color?

It might have to do with the fact that brown is by far the least popular colorway for sports merch. Obviously it's a popular color in the fashion world but seems to be pretty unpopular if you're trying to sell t's, caps, and hoodies in addition to jerseys. Navy and black seem to the the go to. colors which has become terribly stale.

Do you have an actual source for that?

I am confident that more blue and red merchandise gets sold than brown! In other words, Browns and throwback Padres gear accounts for less merchandise sales than Yankees/Sixers/Bulls/Braves/Cavaliers/Cardinals/Red Sox/ Cubs combined.

Wait, you're saying that merchandise from two teams doesn't outsell merchandise from 8 teams??? That is crazy!

Of course more red and blue merchandise is going to be sold than brown because there is a lot more of it. If you really want to see if the Browns' fans have a problem with brown merchandise you need to compare sales within the Browns brand. If the Browns are selling more black, grey and white merchandise than Brown, then you might have a point.

I took chackfu's post to be sarcasm -- a way to illustrate the fallacy of the claim that not a lot of brown sports merchandise gets sold.

[dennisbergan]

For the 198th time, Nike only PRODUCES the jerseys and uniforms. NFL Properties and the teams themselves are FAR AND AWAY more important in the whole uniform design deal.

Its just lazy and ignorant for some of you to continue to blame Nike for your perceived failures in NFL uniforms. But whatever makes some of you happy.

Cleveland is going to choose their new uniforms. Nike may make suggestions, but in the end, its up to the Cleveland franchise and NFL Properties to come up with what they want and OK whatever is done. Everybody get that?

And the Bucs new uniforms aren't nearly as bad as some of you would like to think. The numbers make it look worse then it is. The colors work and increasing the pewter in the overall set (including adding pewter socks to the rotation) was a real win.

The orange socks though should NEVER be worn with either the white or red jerseys. They look totally out-of-place. They should only be used with an orange alternate. Why an orange alt hasn't been produced (yet) and why orange socks were even created without one, is puzzling.

[infrared41]

For the 198th time, Nike only PRODUCES the jerseys and uniforms. NFL Properties and the teams themselves are FAR AND AWAY more important in the whole uniform design deal.

Its just lazy and ignorant for some of you to continue to blame Nike for your perceived failures in NFL uniforms. But whatever makes some of you happy.

Cleveland is going to choose their new uniforms. Nike may make suggestions, but in the end, its up to the Cleveland franchise and NFL Properties to come up with what they want and OK whatever is done. Everybody get that?

God knows I rarely agree with our angry and hateful friend Denny, but other than the part about people being "lazy and ignorant" (like we'd expect anything different from this guy?) he's right. It's not like Nike says "here's what you're wearing now deal with it." Teams have the final say on uniform designs.

[OnWis97]

For the 198th time, Nike only PRODUCES the jerseys and uniforms. NFL Properties and the teams themselves are FAR AND AWAY more important in the whole uniform design deal.

Its just lazy and ignorant for some of you to continue to blame Nike for your perceived failures in NFL uniforms. But whatever makes some of you happy.

Cleveland is going to choose their new uniforms. Nike may make suggestions, but in the end, its up to the Cleveland franchise and NFL Properties to come up with what they want and OK whatever is done. Everybody get that?

God knows I rarely agree with our angry and hateful friend Denny, but other than the part about people being "lazy and ignorant" (like we'd expect anything different from this guy?) he's right. It's not like Nike says "here's what you're wearing now deal with it." Teams have the final say on uniform designs.

I am sure Nike was not given carte blanche to just design what they want in a vacuum and the team has to deal with it.

However, is it possible that the price of Nike's contract essentially includes "we get to use X number of teams as a Nike billboard." For year 1, Seattle came out looking like "Team Nike". My immediate thought was that it was part of the deal that someone had to be the the canvas for Nike and Seattle was the team. Of course, in order for that to be the deal, the NFL still had to agree to it and they probably had to get a team on board. So maybe this does not change much. If Nike wants the contract so they can make uniforms that, like in the NCAA, say "Nike" more than "Team" then it is still up to the league/teams to say "no we're not signing that garbage."

So while the league and teams still allowed for this to happen, I am sure the contract was sweeter for it. Once again, Nike made the deal they wanted to make and it would have been up to the teams to tone 'em done. But I am nevertheless OK with people taking shots at Nike since 1) some of the designs suck and 2) They are imposing their will (albeit to a bunch of jellyfish teams).

[MJWalker45]

Looking at the uniforms above:

Miami- Downgrade. The colors are better but the lack of an agua facemask and the number font are downgrades.

Tampa Bay - Downgrade. The new logo was promising, even the helmet is good, but the digital numbers destroyed the whole set.

Vikings- Solid update. Numbers need to be the same regardless what side its on.

Bills - Fix the socks for the blue pants and it's near perfect.

[oldschoolvikings]

Well, here we are, back to discussing who's most at "fault" for nightmares like Tampa, Seattle, and Jacksonville. And it's constantly pointed out that the team, no doubt, has final say. So you can say the buck stopped there, and that's that. However, I have very little doubt that when the Nike sales push is on, and they're in the room with a particular team's brass, it's very hard for these teams to not get caught up in it... selling themselves is what Nike does. Sure, Tampa and Jacksonville signed off, but it was at the end of what I'm sure was a pretty amazing presentation.

Not that I blame the swoosh for self promotion... it's what they do. But it would be nice if you got the feeling that Nike considered the team's long-term image to be job one, and Nike's self-promotion to be... I don't know, maybe job 10 or 11.

[LARAMS2K15]

Well, here we are, back to discussing who's most at "fault" for nightmares like Tampa, Seattle, and Jacksonville. And it's constantly pointed out that the team, no doubt, has final say. So you can say the buck stopped there, and that's that. However, I have very little doubt that when the Nike sales push is on, and they're in the room with a particular team's brass, it's very hard for these teams to not get caught up in it... selling themselves is what Nike does. Sure, Tampa and Jacksonville signed off, but it was at the end of what I'm sure was a pretty amazing presentation.

Not that I blame the swoosh for self promotion... it's what they do. But it would be nice if you got the feeling that Nike considered the team's long-term image to be job one, and Nike's self-promotion to be... I don't know, maybe job 10 or 11.

Agree 100%. Most of the time it's business men from the team who have 0 experience in any form of design being convinced that this is what's "in" and that they should sign off on it.

[Harmening]

Well, here we are, back to discussing who's most at "fault" for nightmares like Tampa, Seattle, and Jacksonville. And it's constantly pointed out that the team, no doubt, has final say. So you can say the buck stopped there, and that's that. However, I have very little doubt that when the Nike sales push is on, and they're in the room with a particular team's brass, it's very hard for these teams to not get caught up in it... selling themselves is what Nike does. Sure, Tampa and Jacksonville signed off, but it was at the end of what I'm sure was a pretty amazing presentation.

Not that I blame the swoosh for self promotion... it's what they do. But it would be nice if you got the feeling that Nike considered the team's long-term image to be job one, and Nike's self-promotion to be... I don't know, maybe job 10 or 11.

Agree 100%. Most of the time it's business men from the team who have 0 experience in any form of design being convinced that this is what's "in" and that they should sign off on it.

Yep. The sale doesn't start until the client says "no".

[ltjets21]

What, exactly, is "the strong brand" associated with the team's current look? What thoughts/feelings does that brand evoke? Is it something a fan of the team wants to continue being associated with?

To me the biggest problem is not their strong brand now it is the almost certainty that the brand Nike puts out will be considerably worse.

All the teams they touched I would rate like this so far:

1. Minnesota Vikings - Slight Upgrade, not a big fan but overall it is better than what it replaced

2. Seattle Seahawks - Push, I was never a fan of their previous set & I really like some of the aspects but way too many inconsistencies on this one

3. Miami Dolphins - Downgrade in everything they changed from the previous set

4. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Downgrade in everything they changed from the previous set

5. Jacksonville Jaguars - Downgrade, Helmet is the worst thing I have seen in the NFL and the uniforms are slightly better than before but no where near the excellence of the 90s uniform

Looking at the stats say the Browns have about a 20% of looking better than they do now, 20% of looking the same, & 60% of looking worse or like a bunch of clowns.

The stats are not in their favor.

The odds are probably worse than that because the Browns currently have a good look. The Dolphins managed to downgrade from a muddled set and the Vikings upgraded in large part because the prior set was so bad.

In my opinion,

Vikings-upgrade, but go back to purple masks

Seahawks-lateral move, but fixed some minor issues

Dolphins-cleaned up a uniform with a simply classic upgrade

Jaguar-mix of upgrades and downgrades between various elements

Bucs-whiffed big time on a huge opportunity to upgrade and came away with a major downgrade

Totally agreed. Nike has more upgrades than downgrades so far.

Vikings: went from a 5/10 to an 8.5/10

vs

Seahawks: 6/10 to a 7/10

vs

Dolphins: 5/10 vs 7/10

vs

Jags: 2/10 to a 3.5/10

vs

Bucs: 9/10 to 1/10

vs

To me, Nike has improved every team except the massive failure with the Bucs uniforms. My only gripe with Nike is their horrible templates and how they seem to make at least one mistake on every uniform. I like Seattle's look but those weird silver bars on the front of the uniform look silly and are unnecessary. The Vikings are nearly perfect but I think a yellow THIN (not those weird toilet bowls) collar would look good. The Dolphins have a nice look now that is modern and clean with a nice number font (I think Nike has improved tons of number fonts so far), but that uniform needs a tad more orange as on TV, the orange hardly shows. The Jags had a great look to start with and then downgraded tremendously in 2009 to that weird salt/pepper piping horribleness. Their template isn't the worst right now but that helmet is pitiful and they should be a teal dominant team not a black dominant team. Those Bucs uniforms are pretty much unsalvageable. In a year or two, Nike has to completely revisit those.

I'd also like to say that Nike only has so much control over the uniform process. Here's how uniforms actually get changed.

1. Owner says he wants new uniforms.

2. In-house people throw out ideas while out of house designers make concepts for the team using some of the ideas from the owner and others with input.

3. Nike sees what the out of house people have made and makes their own concepts (2-3 to choose from usually) that fit what's already been done.

4. The owner either chooses them or tells them to go back to the drawing table.

Nike doesn't do this on their own is what I'm trying to say.

Sure Nike does not do this on their own but there is now way Nike is not mainly responsible for their mess because it usually highlights the Nike Template.

My problem with your statement is you say Nike upgraded everyone so far but you also say they made mistakes. How can the Jags abomination be better than their last set the helmet is so awful & as much as people say their uniform is good now I just cant see it.

What is so good about the uniform it is simple fill in the colors that has no reason for doing it.

Is it just me or do the dolphins colors look more blue in some lighting but greener in others...?

[oldschoolvikings]

*A HALF DOZEN GIANT PICTURES*

Is it just me or do the dolphins colors look more blue in some lighting but greener in others...?

For that question you needed to quote that huge post?

[leopard88]

*TEN GIANT PICTURES*

Is it just me or do the dolphins colors look more blue in some lighting but greener in others...?

For that question you needed to quote that huge post?

Edited for accuracy.

[VikWings]

Nike definitely has a lot of say in the design process but the owner/team still have to sign off on it. I wish I could see what other crazy ideas they had for the Vikings at first just for :censored:s and giggles. The serifs, or as Nike called it "bows of Vikings ship", on only one number and black facemask bothers me but otherwise I like them and it's a major upgrade. Still not better than their 70s or even late 90s-early 00s set though. I loved the UCLA stripe white jerseys.

-I like the Dolphins new shade of Aqua better than the last one, but the font sucks and logo is atrocious and looks more like a logo for a travel agency or beach resort than a sports team. The jumping dolphin wearing their helmet was their identity, no idea why they changed.

-There's problems with the Jags jerseys, other than the worst helmet ever, but they're an upgrade over the previous mess. Why they went from a teal to a black team baffles me.

-Seattle's unis have grown on me, but I still hate the stupid collarbone stripe things and the fact they love going mono when Navy over Gray looks so good.

-The Bucs trash has been beaten to death.

Back on the topic of the Browns, I thought they were one of the untouchable franchises, so I'm still surprised in general that they'rechanging. And I think most peoples problem with the change is that even if the uniforms are more Vikings than Bucs it's still going to be a downgrade because you can't upgrade perfection.

[BBTV]

Serious request:

Can we suspend anyone who puts photos of last year's and this year's Bucs uniforms in the same post? It just elicits too much anger, and nobody should have to be reminded of what they did.

[hugevolsfan]

For the 198th time, Nike only PRODUCES the jerseys and uniforms. NFL Properties and the teams themselves are FAR AND AWAY more important in the whole uniform design deal.

Its just lazy and ignorant for some of you to continue to blame Nike for your perceived failures in NFL uniforms. But whatever makes some of you happy.

Cleveland is going to choose their new uniforms. Nike may make suggestions, but in the end, its up to the Cleveland franchise and NFL Properties to come up with what they want and OK whatever is done. Everybody get that?

God knows I rarely agree with our angry and hateful friend Denny, but other than the part about people being "lazy and ignorant" (like we'd expect anything different from this guy?) he's right. It's not like Nike says "here's what you're wearing now deal with it." Teams have the final say on uniform designs.

They have the final say on what Nike shows them but there is no way the teams themselves come up with this stuff that highlights Nike's template.

You are Naive at best if you think that.

[Hat Boy]

It's not like Nike says "here's what you're wearing now deal with it." Teams have the final say on uniform designs.

Yes, it is the teams' fault that this stuff makes it onto the field, but on a board dedicated to uniform design and aesthetic, it makes sense to critique the designers.

I think the Pontiac Aztec is an ugly vehicle, but I don't blame the people who bought Aztecs for that, I blame Pontiac. I think the Buccaneers are chumps for choosing that number font, but Nike is to blame for the design.

[chakfu]

I was a fan of the 2000s Browns' orange alternates and would love for them to bring some form of those back, but as alternates. You know what's even more unique than orange? Brown. The Browns are the only team in the NFL, nay, the big 4 leagues to wear brown. Other than putting your stamp on the team you own, why not own such a rarely-used color?

It might have to do with the fact that brown is by far the least popular colorway for sports merch. Obviously it's a popular color in the fashion world but seems to be pretty unpopular if you're trying to sell t's, caps, and hoodies in addition to jerseys. Navy and black seem to the the go to. colors which has become terribly stale.

Do you have an actual source for that?

I am confident that more blue and red merchandise gets sold than brown! In other words, Browns and throwback Padres gear accounts for less merchandise sales than Yankees/Sixers/Bulls/Braves/Cavaliers/Cardinals/Red Sox/ Cubs combined.

Wait, you're saying that merchandise from two teams doesn't outsell merchandise from 8 teams??? That is crazy!

Of course more red and blue merchandise is going to be sold than brown because there is a lot more of it. If you really want to see if the Browns' fans have a problem with brown merchandise you need to compare sales within the Browns brand. If the Browns are selling more black, grey and white merchandise than Brown, then you might have a point.

I took chackfu's post to be sarcasm -- a way to illustrate the fallacy of the claim that not a lot of brown sports merchandise gets sold.

Good heavens, at least someone got it! I thought it was a pretty obvious joke/sarcastic comment ... I was trying to make the point that it's hard to assess the 'popularity' of brown when the Browns are the only choice. Obviously 1 bad team's merch isn't going to sell well compared to a sea of other more popular teams wearing more common colors.