2013-2014 NHL Uniform & Logo Changes

[Kevin W.]

I'm growing to hate the term "traditional market." Hockey is the only sport where people seem to care.

That's mainly because none of the other Big Four/Five sports are as regional as hockey is. Hockey is a winter sport. Baseball, soccer, football and basketball can be played year round. The combination of a winter sport and Southern markets where the winters aren't nearly as cold doesn't sit well with people.

[habsfan1]

How about a mix of both? I made it about 2 years ago...

[ColeJ]

I'm growing to hate the term "traditional market." Hockey is the only sport where people seem to care.

That's mainly because none of the other Big Four/Five sports are as regional as hockey is. Hockey is a winter sport. Baseball, soccer, football and basketball can be played year round. The combination of a winter sport and Southern markets where the winters aren't nearly as cold doesn't sit well with people.

Hockey is played indoors on artificial ice. Even in Canada despite what Bettman and the Winter Classic try to tell you. Also I grew up in Dallas after being born in New England. I played hockey here. I learned hockey here. I'm not buying it.

[IceCap]

"Don't buy it" if you don't want to, but the fact is that hockey's still a regional sport. I know that attitude among northern fans can be annoying to southern fans, but the "what's so special about your traditional markets?!?! Southern hockey loud and proud!" attitude, an inversion of the traditional Canadian inferiority complex via the US, can get grating. I'm not saying you're less of a "fan" then me or that your team is less special then mine, but Jesus. Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

Also LOL at Gary "Grow the Game" Bettman as some kind of "traditional market" cheerleader. Dude moves mountains to keep the Coyotes in Glendale but threatens to move the Jets 2.0 before tickets even go on sale.

[The Giant Pacific Octopus]

"Don't buy it" if you don't want to, but the fact is that hockey's still a regional sport. I know that attitude among northern fans can be annoying to southern fans, but the "what's so special about your traditional markets?!?! Southern hockey loud and proud!" attitude, an inversion of the traditional Canadian inferiority complex via the US, can get grating. I'm not saying you're less of a "fan" or that your team is less special then mine, but Jesus. Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

Also LOL at Gary "Grow the Game" Bettman as some kind of "traditional market" cheerleader. Dude moves mountains to keep the Coyotes in Glendale but threatens to move the Jets 2.0 before tickets even go on sale.

I'm a Canadian (been for over 4 decades) and I don't mind southern U.S teams at all. I don't have the "Its our game" and "Mine, mine, mine" crap/mentality that alot of Canadians seem to have. I think its great when kids in Florida or Texas or heck Hawaii play the game of hockey.

[LMU]

Gotta admit, medieval Japanese tentacle porn was not something I expected to be in admiral's repertoire, but there it is.

Isn't it obvious? Admiral is Bert Cooper.

[IceCap]

"Don't buy it" if you don't want to, but the fact is that hockey's still a regional sport. I know that attitude among northern fans can be annoying to southern fans, but the "what's so special about your traditional markets?!?! Southern hockey loud and proud!" attitude, an inversion of the traditional Canadian inferiority complex via the US, can get grating. I'm not saying you're less of a "fan" or that your team is less special then mine, but Jesus. Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

Also LOL at Gary "Grow the Game" Bettman as some kind of "traditional market" cheerleader. Dude moves mountains to keep the Coyotes in Glendale but threatens to move the Jets 2.0 before tickets even go on sale.

I'm a Canadian (been for over 4 decades) and I don't mind southern U.S teams at all. I don't have the "Its our game" and "Mine, mine, mine" crap/mentality that alot of Canadians seem to have. I think its great when kids in Florida or Texas or heck Hawaii play the game of hockey.

Cool.

I'm not saying I "mind" southern teams. So long as they're actually successful I say bring them on. I'm not pushing for the Stars to move to Yellowknife or anything. I also don't mind kids in southern states learning to play hockey. I don't want to "hog" the sport.

What I'm saying, however, is that the athletically gifted kid in Florida that wants to play hockey? He's in the distinct minority compared to the athletically gifted kids in Florida who want to play football, baseball, or basketball. That's not me saying "ALL TEH HOCKEY FOR CANADA", that's simply the truth to the matter. And in that sense it is "our" game. Just like football and baseball are America's games. It's not a matter of possession, it's a matter of culture.

[The_Admiral]

Nothing wrong with going to the South unless you do it at the expense of the North, which is precisely what the NHL did.

Gotta admit, medieval Japanese tentacle porn was not something I expected to be in admiral's repertoire, but there it is.

Isn't it obvious? Admiral is Bert Cooper.

I always take my shoes off before I post.

[ColeJ]

Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

no, and i find that question to be slightly offensive, to be honest.

toronto has a legacy of hockey and a rich hockey history. dallas only has a 20 year history of NHL hockey. toronto has a history because toronto has a history.

there are countless cities in north america that have no history with top level baseball, football, or basketball. if they got a team, they wouldn't be judged on the traditionality of their market. you have to have a team to get that history. san jose isn't a traditional market, but they've had a team for almost as long as the north stars were in minnesota. where is the cut-off of "traditional."

i think sports should be inclusive and not exclusive.

a market should be judged on it's profitability and fan interest, not if it's "traditional." seattle isn't a traditional football market, but no one complains. toronto isn't a traditional baseball market, but no one complains. i just don't get the need to divide the sport as much as hockey fans seem to do, nor do i see how long a team has been in a certain market should have anything to do with the way they dress.

just my 2 cents.

[LEWJ]

Sorry this is completely spontaneous, I didn't want to start a new topic.

Has anyone seen this picture before?

Those seem to be re-purposed St. Louis Blues threads haha.

/end

As you were.

[BelfourThibault]

"Don't buy it" if you don't want to, but the fact is that hockey's still a regional sport. I know that attitude among northern fans can be annoying to southern fans, but the "what's so special about your traditional markets?!?! Southern hockey loud and proud!" attitude, an inversion of the traditional Canadian inferiority complex via the US, can get grating. I'm not saying you're less of a "fan" then me or that your team is less special then mine, but Jesus. Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

Also LOL at Gary "Grow the Game" Bettman as some kind of "traditional market" cheerleader. Dude moves mountains to keep the Coyotes in Glendale but threatens to move the Jets 2.0 before tickets even go on sale.

I hear your points, and I can see your side of things. But, having grown up in the US, I became a goalie at age 4, and still play 3-4 times per week at age 33. Is hockey regional in the US? Sure it is. But a Canadian passport doesn't mean 'better player' or 'better fan' by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm far from Gary Bettman's biggest fan, but this is a problem that I have with most Canadian fans that I've talked with. Gary Bettman is the commissioner, but he works for the owners. If Canadian fans are going to blame Bettman for the Phoenix debacle, they can surely give him credit for saving teams like Calgary and Edmonton when their ownership demanded a salary cap because they were "losing money" despite having some of the highest ticket prices in the league as well as some of the highest capacity. As for Winnipeg, most people who complain about them leaving in the first place (and I was one of them) aren't even old enough to even know anything about their lease and the way it completely handcuffed the province of Manitoba. If the owners, by and large, didn't want NHL hockey in Phoenix, it wouldn't be there. Simple and plain. Gary Bettman has a lot of power, but he doesn't have that much power.

Of course Toronto has more history than Dallas. The only people who care about that are Maple Leaf fans. Unless of course we're talking about recent history, in which case 1999 is a lot better than 1967. As a DIE HARD fan of an Original Six team, it makes me roll my eyes when they bring out the "Original Six" statements as if it's supposed to mean anything anymore. I do appreciate and love the history, but it's a cheap cop out. Trust me, I was a Blackhawks season ticket holder in the days of Jocelyn Thibault, Jean-Yves Leroux, and Alexei Zhamnov. All the pre-game history lesson videos didn't do a lot for us in the standings, and I could have shot a pistol through the United Center without hitting anyone.

The best is when Canadian fans talk about how "Tickets in Columbus are only $45, and my tickets in Toronto cost me $2500!!!!!!111!". Congratulations. You're hockey's version of Cubs fans.

And Ice_Cap, please don't take that personally, because it wasn't so much directed AT you as it was a rant that my drunken self started at 3am.

[Stampman]

Sorry this is completely spontaneous, I didn't want to start a new topic.

Has anyone seen this picture before?

Those seem to be re-purposed St. Louis Blues threads haha.

/end

As you were.

Did you Google that?

[The_Admiral]

The best is when Canadian fans talk about how "Tickets in Columbus are only $45, and my tickets in Toronto cost me $2500!!!!!!111!". Congratulations. You're hockey's version of Cubs fans.

They're literally subsidizing the league. Show some respect, bub.

[Bayne]

I saw this on HFBoards. Sens fans are apparently trying to petition the team into changing their jerseys.

http://twitter.com/sensinblack

http://twitter.com/sensinblack/status/364138685874200576

Ugh. Why not just make a white version of the current alt and call it a day?

No, that alt is an alt jersey at best. That's even worse than suggesting the Canucks wear the rink and stick full time. Not saying either are horrible suggestions, but the =O= full time would be worse IMO.

I really like these jerseys. Better than what they have now, but that's mainly because the template is so bleh. I would like to see what the current Sens logo looks like on these jerseys.

[IceCap]

Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

no, and i find that question to be slightly offensive, to be honest

Wasn't meant to be.

toronto has a legacy of hockey and a rich hockey history. dallas only has a 20 year history of NHL hockey. toronto has a history because toronto has a history.

there are countless cities in north america that have no history with top level baseball, football, or basketball. if they got a team, they wouldn't be judged on the traditionality of their market. you have to have a team to get that history. san jose isn't a traditional market, but they've had a team for almost as long as the north stars were in minnesota. where is the cut-off of "traditional."

i think sports should be inclusive and not exclusive.

a market should be judged on it's profitability and fan interest, not if it's "traditional." seattle isn't a traditional football market, but no one complains. toronto isn't a traditional baseball market, but no one complains. i just don't get the need to divide the sport as much as hockey fans seem to do...

just my 2 cents.

Like I said above, it's not about possession, but about culture. The romantic image of football? It being played in the park. The romantic image of baseball? It being played on a baseball diamond. The romantic image of basketball? It being played on a neighbourhood court. Any of those could happen in any town in North America during the spring, summer, or fall. Hockey though? The romantic image of hockey is it being played on either a frozen pond or a neighbourhood outdoor rink. Both of which you can only really do in Canadian and northern American locales. Hockey, by its very nature, is rooted in a sense of regionalism that's just not inherent to baseball, football, and basketball. Yes, now hockey's mostly played on artificially created ice across the continent. And yes you can play year round if you want to, but the romantic image of hockey being played on a frozen pond is still engrained into the sport's culture. That's why you have that divide. You don't have to like it, but surely you can see why it exists.

...nor do i see how long a team has been in a certain market should have anything to do with the way they dress.

To be fair this attitude seems to exist here for all sports. Maybe not in terms of location, but you definitely see the "they're a 90s team, they SHOULD wear teal and outrageous uniforms!"-style arguments all over the place.

Though the Stars? I'm right there with you. Maybe even more so. I'd have them looking as much like the 1988-91 North Stars as possible. Just switch out the N for a D.

[IceCap]

"Don't buy it" if you don't want to, but the fact is that hockey's still a regional sport. I know that attitude among northern fans can be annoying to southern fans, but the "what's so special about your traditional markets?!?! Southern hockey loud and proud!" attitude, an inversion of the traditional Canadian inferiority complex via the US, can get grating. I'm not saying you're less of a "fan" then me or that your team is less special then mine, but Jesus. Do I need to relate the history of the game to you to explain why Toronto has a legacy of hockey that Dallas just doesn't have?

Also LOL at Gary "Grow the Game" Bettman as some kind of "traditional market" cheerleader. Dude moves mountains to keep the Coyotes in Glendale but threatens to move the Jets 2.0 before tickets even go on sale.

I hear your points, and I can see your side of things. But, having grown up in the US, I became a goalie at age 4, and still play 3-4 times per week at age 33. Is hockey regional in the US? Sure it is. But a Canadian passport doesn't mean 'better player' or 'better fan' by any stretch of the imagination.

Cool. I've been a goalie since I was that young too. I don't think I'm "better" then you because I'm Canadian. Never said that, or anything like that anywhere in this thread.

I'm far from Gary Bettman's biggest fan, but this is a problem that I have with most Canadian fans that I've talked with. Gary Bettman is the commissioner, but he works for the owners.

What a tired argument. The owners hire him, yes. They hire him, however, to run the league. The owners? They have their own businesses/criminal enterprises to tend to, they don't want to have to deal with running the NHL seven days a week. That's why they have a commissioner. And since he's there running the league day in and day out they defer to him when it comes to major decisions. To imply that he's just this useless figurehead is to miss the point of the commissioner's position.

If Canadian fans are going to blame Bettman for the Phoenix debacle, they can surely give him credit for saving teams like Calgary and Edmonton when their ownership demanded a salary cap because they were "losing money" despite having some of the highest ticket prices in the league as well as some of the highest capacity.

If Bettman's the saviour of Calgary and Edmonton then he's responsible for the losses of Quebec City and Winnipeg. That's something the Bettman supporters never figure out. They go on and on about how he's just this figurehead for the owners, yet they insist he personally saved the Flames and Oilers. It doesn't work that way. He isn't just impotent when it suits your argument.

As for Winnipeg, most people who complain about them leaving in the first place (and I was one of them) aren't even old enough to even know anything about their lease and the way it completely handcuffed the province of Manitoba. If the owners, by and large, didn't want NHL hockey in Phoenix, it wouldn't be there. Simple and plain. Gary Bettman has a lot of power, but he doesn't have that much power.

Jerry Colangelo wanted out of the Coyotes only a few years after he moved them to Phoenix. Bettman scrambled to find enough suckers to buy the team to keep the operation up and running. He's been looking under the proverbial coach cushions for change to keep this franchise afloat since they moved to the desert. It's not unreasonable to say that Gary Bettman has a lot of himself (and his ego) tied into the success or failure of NHL hockey in the greater Phoenix metropolitan area.

Of course Toronto has more history than Dallas. The only people who care about that are Maple Leaf fans. Unless of course we're talking about recent history, in which case 1999 is a lot better than 1967.

You're the first person to ever burn me with "LOL 1967!" Ouch. That stung.

Seriously dude, that's emotional scar tissue. There's nothing left to feel anything.

And you know what? Yeah, the Leafs haven't lifted the Cup since 1967, but you know what? Toronto's still more relevant to the culture and history of the game of hockey then Dallas is. That's not, I repeat, that's NOT an insult thrown Dallas' way. Just a statement of fact.

As a DIE HARD fan of an Original Six team, it makes me roll my eyes when they bring out the "Original Six" statements as if it's supposed to mean anything anymore. I do appreciate and love the history, but it's a cheap cop out. Trust me, I was a Blackhawks season ticket holder in the days of Jocelyn Thibault, Jean-Yves Leroux, and Alexei Zhamnov. All the pre-game history lesson videos didn't do a lot for us in the standings, and I could have shot a pistol through the United Center without hitting anyone.

It's a simple fact that if you play five other teams over and over again for forty years you're going to develop a rivalry with them that's just not going to be matched by whatever contrived rivalry the league's trying to force you to have with the Nashville Predators.

The best is when Canadian fans talk about how "Tickets in Columbus are only $45, and my tickets in Toronto cost me $2500!!!!!!111!". Congratulations. You're hockey's version of Cubs fans.

Hey, guess what. Columbus fans only have to pay $45 for tickets and the Coyotes can afford to have $10 ticket/beer/hotdog/Snuggie night because Leafs fans pay $150 for nosebleeds. As admiral pointed out we're subsidizing the whole thing. For only having seven teams out of thirty Canada makes a disproportionately large amount of money for this league.

[DeFrank]

This thread is why I'll always only know the players on my local hockey team. Go Caps.

[monkeypower]

I thought this was a jersey thread.

Buffalo has been taking it's sweet time with this jersey. Not that I'm looking forward to it.

[The_Admiral]

Any truth to the Senators' red-dominant palette being a directive from Scotiabank?

As for the whole senator/centurion thing, I think that battle is lost, and they're best off just embracing that misnomer because the logo looks so, so good. The original logo and the unused update both have such a note of distinction about them. So did the laurel sweater itself. The problems were the inferior 3-D logo and the Serpentine names/numbers. A typeface found on every small-town squad car is the opposite of distinction. So take that sweater design, use the current numbers, unused 2-D, and then either the O-Flag or the Peace Tower for the shoulders. I lean toward the Peace Tower, perhaps with the steeple recolored to its proper mint green. It would be quite unique!

[Orgo]

Any truth to the Senators' red-dominant palette being a directive from Scotiabank?

As for the whole senator/centurion thing, I think that battle is lost, and they're best off just embracing that misnomer because the logo looks so, so good. The original logo and the unused update both have such a note of distinction about them. So did the laurel sweater itself. The problems were the inferior 3-D logo and the Serpentine names/numbers. A typeface found on every small-town squad car is the opposite of distinction. So take that sweater design, use the current numbers, unused 2-D, and then either the O-Flag or the Peace Tower for the shoulders. I lean toward the Peace Tower, perhaps with the steeple recolored to its proper mint green. It would be quite unique!

I wish they would use the updated 2D logo. There's something about the old 2D's face that to me makes it look rather dated.